Constructive criticism needed!

[hillclimber]

Hi Everyone!

I've lurked here for a while now and thought that it was time to say hello. I'm based in the westcountry and do hillclimbs as often as possible, amounting to a weekend every month or so.

I'm wondering if anyone would be kind enough to offer some constructive feedback on my driving. I plan to go to Gurston hillclimb school at some point and will be attending a track/tuition day at Castle Combe in a couple of weeks where I hope to pick up a few tips.

Anyway, any feedback beyond 'buy a decent car' etc will be appreciated

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vm83BSB7OI

Thanks again,

Dan.

[GORDON STREETER]

Yes, edit the footage down and just show the run
I jest, welcome to the forum Dan

[hillclimber]

My other vids are much shorter, but my 8 year old son keeps asking to see a video of driving down the hill as well as up. I forgot that this was the long one when I left it uploading before bed!!

[RED21]

Welcome Dan
I haven't driven Wiscombe yet, but it certainly looks like you have things under control.
The school at Gurston is a excellent day out and will give you plenty of pointers on how to get the best from the hill.

Here is one of mine (p2)from GD's April meeting & a wet one 30 minutes later.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e0DGOmCwE0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zssFYE3AacY

[MGDavid]

Might help to know what car and tyres you are on?
could you be more aggressive over the hump by the tree, then brake a bit more before the turn-in to Gate?
Braver through Gate and the first bit of Esses?
Up another gear and brake later/heavier before Martini?

[hillclimber]

Originally Posted by RED21

Welcome Dan
I haven't driven Wiscombe yet, but it certainly looks like you have things under control.
The school at Gurston is a excellent day out and will give you plenty of pointers on how to get the best from the hill.

Here is one of mine (p2)from GD's April meeting & a wet one 30 minutes later.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e0DGOmCwE0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zssFYE3AacY

Thanks for your feedback. I've been thinking of doing Gurston for a while now, it looks a lot of fun and very fast. I was gritting my teeth waiting for something terrible to happen on your 2nd run, glad it turned out to not be too serious.

[hillclimber]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

Might help to know what car and tyres you are on?
could you be more aggressive over the hump by the tree, then brake a bit more before the turn-in to Gate?
Braver through Gate and the first bit of Esses?
Up another gear and brake later/heavier before Martini?

It's an early 911, on Kumho v70s.

The hump by the tree (bunny's leap) is quite off camber and the road goes to the left just where the car settles, so it's quite hard to keep things balanced, especially with a heavy rear weight bias. You're right though, I could definitely be more aggressive (I don't need to lift off so much) and leave braking later. I'm there on Saturday so I will try to hold my nerve (and keep the car off the grass / out of the trees).

Again, yes, I could go quicker through the gate and the first part of the esses, so need to focus on that.

Not sure I could squeeze another gear before Martini but I'm sure there's room to leave braking later.

So in summary, carrying more speed through bunny's and the gate, and pushing on earlier in the esses then braking later at Martini, will all help.

Thank you for your comments, which really are appreciated. I will report back - hopefully to say that I've made it into the 46s and not broken the car!

Actually, you might even be there, it being the MGCC event? If so, do say hello!

[b1ackcr0w]

Originally Posted by hillclimber

It's an early 911, on Kumho v70s.

The hump by the tree (bunny's leap) is quite off camber and the road goes to the left just where the car settles, so it's quite hard to keep things balanced, especially with a heavy rear weight bias. You're right though, I could definitely be more aggressive (I don't need to lift off so much) and leave braking later. I'm there on Saturday so I will try to hold my nerve (and keep the car off the grass / out of the trees).

Again, yes, I could go quicker through the gate and the first part of the esses, so need to focus on that.

Not sure I could squeeze another gear before Martini but I'm sure there's room to leave braking later.

So in summary, carrying more speed through bunny's and the gate, and pushing on earlier in the esses then braking later at Martini, will all help.

Thank you for your comments, which really are appreciated. I will report back - hopefully to say that I've made it into the 46s and not broken the car!

Actually, you might even be there, it being the MGCC event? If so, do say hello!

I'll watch the video later. But from years of watching Martini (I maintain, one of the best corners, at one of the best venues to marshal in British Motorsport), the trick is to stay out to the right on the castle straight, longer than you think you should before turning in. The corner is >180 degrees and
apex further round than it looks. That said, my hat is instantly doffed to anybody who can get a 911 round that corner without engaging with the scenery. There is a vicious off camber crown which is almost designed to upset a 911.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by b1ackcr0w

I'll watch the video later. But from years of watching Martini (I maintain, one of the best corners, at one of the best venues to marshal in British Motorsport), the trick is to stay out to the right on the castle straight, longer than you think you should before turning in. The corner is >180 degrees and
apex further round than it looks. That said, my hat is instantly doffed to anybody who can get a 911 round that corner without engaging with the scenery. There is a vicious off camber crown which is almost designed to upset a 911.

I know you really you meant >90 degrees for Martini

walk it in the morning - then walk it again lunchtime !!

ah, a 911 is (so I believe) a bit of a handful; Graham (911hillclimber) has used an old 911 for yonks, maybe he can give some specific tips?

[hillclimber]

Originally Posted by b1ackcr0w

I'll watch the video later. But from years of watching Martini (I maintain, one of the best corners, at one of the best venues to marshal in British Motorsport), the trick is to stay out to the right on the castle straight, longer than you think you should before turning in. The corner is >180 degrees and
apex further round than it looks. That said, my hat is instantly doffed to anybody who can get a 911 round that corner without engaging with the scenery. There is a vicious off camber crown which is almost designed to upset a 911.

That's a useful insight re the apex, thanks. I probably do come in too much from the left, whereas keeping to the right also has the benefit of the escape road if I overcook it, which I always forget about being there!

[hillclimber]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

I know you really you meant >90 degrees for Martini

walk it in the morning - then walk it again lunchtime !!

ah, a 911 is (so I believe) a bit of a handful; Graham (911hillclimber) has used an old 911 for yonks, maybe he can give some specific tips?

I always try to walk the hill as even when it's been dry for a while, i never trust it being dry under the trees! Usually by lunchtime it's ok (assuming it's not raining or cold), but I still like to see for myself before committing too much.

I have only ever driven a 911 in anger, which is probably a good thing as I'm in the dark about what neutral handling feels like! I am pretty paranoid about snap oversteer and trying to only brake heavily in a straight line. I also worry about the back end stepping out under hard acceleration out of the gate, but if anything it's probably more likely to plough straight on. I just try to remember that balance is the key, and to not do anything dramatic with the pedals during cornering!

If Graham is around then I'd welcome his input!

[b1ackcr0w]

MGDavid's got me going now. Whatever the angle is, the point I was making is that the apex is further round than you would imagine. The advice to walk it twice a day is very sage. You can get a sense of what I'm talking about by looking at the banks. On the inside you can see where people have clipped the inside through turning in too early, and gouges on the outside where that's turned into understeer. There are two distinct lines. One that Minis and Eynon Price can get away with, and another for normal people

[hillclimber]

Originally Posted by b1ackcr0w

MGDavid's got me going now. Whatever the angle is, the point I was making is that the apex is further round than you would imagine. The advice to walk it twice a day is very sage. You can get a sense of what I'm talking about by looking at the banks. On the inside you can see where people have clipped the inside through turning in too early, and gouges on the outside where that's turned into understeer. There are two distinct lines. One that Minis and Eynon Price can get away with, and another for normal people

That's ok, I got what you meant :-) Very useful info thanks and I'm looking forward to Saturday!

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by hillclimber

That's ok, I got what you meant :-) Very useful info thanks and I'm looking forward to Saturday!

have a great time; you've reminded me that I'm far too infrequent a visitor to one of the best venues and possibly the best MGCC event of the year - but I daren't risk the car when we have a race at Brands the following weekend...

[hillclimber]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

have a great time; you've reminded me that I'm far too infrequent a visitor to one of the best venues and possibly the best MGCC event of the year - but I daren't risk the car when we have a race at Brands the following weekend...

Thanks David. Now I'm getting envious - a race at Brands!! I did my first trackday at Combe a few weeks ago and it was an amazing experience. I have definitely put circuit racing on my 'road map', although it's not likely to happen for a while, with young children and many other commitments. Hope you have a great time too!

[ben240z]

The best tuition you can get for driving wiscombe in a 911 is to watch and talk to Bob Mortimer and Jonathon williamson. Both stunning and scary to watch

[b1ackcr0w]

Originally Posted by ben240z

The best tuition you can get for driving wiscombe in a 911 is to watch and talk to Bob Mortimer and Jonathon williamson. Both stunning and scary to watch

You're not too shabby yourself Mr 240z

[hillclimber]

Apologies for not following up sooner on my last post, which seemed disrespectful at the time, immediately following the tragic events at Brighton the same weekend.

I have spoken to Bob a few times and not only is he an amazing driver, he's a thoroughly nice chap too! Unfortunately because of the running order I've never seen him anywhere other than Wis corner and bunny's, but those are a serious eye opener!!

Thanks again for your comments everyone. I'm pleased to report that the day was a success and I ended up running half a second quicker, so well into the 46's. Very pleased and looking forward to the 45's this year.. (well, I can wish..)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icyawIU1H6Y

Cheers, Dan.

[terence]

Hi Dan,and welcome. Not really much to say on your driving apart from keeping your hands at either 10 to 2 or 1/4 to 3 on the wheel,don't 'shuffle' it like its attached to a bus. The rest will come with pratice/knowledge of the different course's you compete on.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by terence bower

Hi Dan,and welcome. Not really much to say on your driving apart from keeping your hands at either 10 to 2 or 1/4 to 3 on the wheel,don't 'shuffle' it like its attached to a bus. The rest will come with pratice/knowledge of the different course's you compete on.

Funny you should say that Terry but I have always been a 1/4 to 3 driver as you have more control on steering input IMHO.
Some of my customers terrify me with their antics on the road with several that have both hands at 3 o'clock !!!!

[MGDavid]

that looks very smooth - still think you can attack Gate harder!? Are you managing to heel & toe on the downshift into second, or does the pedal arrangement prevent that? (you can tell I've never driven a 911 but I know the Beetle pedals are awful...)

[terence]

911s are ok for H&T, with a bit of practice,case of twisting all of the leg as opposed to just the ankle.

[hillclimber]

Hmm, the 'BSM shuffle' as one of my mates calls it.. I just don't find that my arms can turn the wheel quick enough on the sharper bends without moving them, but of course it must be possible as other people manage it. It's a nasty habit and I'll need to try and imagine that my hands are glued in place!

Re H&T-ing; I used to do this ok when I was driving slower (and I do on the road), but finding it hard now that I'm having to focus more on keeping the car out of the scenery Trouble is that the synchro on 2nd is monumentally shot, but it's always been easy to live with during normal driving so not a priority before now. I'm in the middle of restoring another 911 so currently short of time and money. Maybe a job for next winter, or I just need to get my act together and drive properly so it doesn't crunch. It breaks my heart to hear it in the videos..

Cheers again for the advice; all duly noted, including having bigger balls at the gate..

[terence]

Double de-clutch should help on the synchro issue. Good luck with it,nice car to use.