2008 Biodiesel LMP1 Project

[ThePenguin]

On Endurance-Info.com there is a story about a team that is trying to put together a LMP1 program for next year, using a Biodiesel engine, and a Lola chassis.

http://translate.google.com/translat...D0%26thold%3D0

[The359]

I assume that B2K/10 is the old Taurus diesel?

[bil588]

What tires? Any hints of a B08/60?

[gwyllion]

Also see http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89943
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77252
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72926
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53321

[minimangler]

It sounds like a great idea to me- renewable and it still sounds as good as if its running on petrol
none of this diesel s**t

[SebringMG]

Hehe still technically a diesel though - so still smelly

Car seems slow atm according to the article.....have to increase the speed a bit (welll quite a lot). But new(er) chassis should help - would bet on it being the Chamberlain-Synergy Lola if they do swap back to P2!!

[AU N EGL]

Wont they have to get special permission from the ACO/FIA or use the "APPROVED fuel" by Shell?

[The Badger]

Im hoping that Taurus will get their hands on the ex-Chamberlain Lola LMP1 .

Is there still an ex Dyson Lola kicking around ?

[bil588]

Velocity and Cytosport have the ex-Dyson cars.

What does the engine sound like?

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by bil588

What does the engine sound like?

Like a diesel The engine was based on VAG 5.0 V10 TDI from VW Touareg. It produced a ridiculous low amount of power and was heavy like hell. So highly uncompetitive.

[The Badger]

And it belched massive clouds of black smoke too !!!

I cant help wondering if its a waste of time for Taurus , trying to compete against the might of Audi & Peugeot ..... unless its a planned LMP2 entry , there must be something going to change in LMP2 cuz WR are going the same way ?

[chewymonster]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Like a diesel The engine was based on VAG 5.0 V10 TDI from VW Touareg. It produced a ridiculous low amount of power and was heavy like hell. So highly uncompetitive.

http://www.perkins.com/cda/component...&x=7&id=284098

They basically took a bone stock engine and put new turbos on it. And probably did some some software tweaks.

The V10 TDI is aluminum, but it is quite an old TDI diesel. It makes 310 hp from 5 liters, the newest TDI makes 500 hp from 6 liters. So it is far from using the latest TDI technology. But it isn't too bad considering that the engine was very much stock, I doubt any gasoline engine would do better with this little work done to it.

A while back some news said that Audi would run bio diesel for 2008. Bio diesel "produces" about 4 times as much more "new" energy than bio ethanol. (a gallon of ethanol only provides about 25% more energy than it took to make it, while bio diesel from soybeans is somewhere around 90%)

[Hammerdown]

Originally Posted by chewymonster

Bio diesel "produces" about 4 times as much more "new" energy than bio ethanol. (a gallon of ethanol only provides about 25% more energy than it took to make it, while bio diesel from soybeans is somewhere around 90%)

Ooh, have you got references for those figs. It's something I've been looking for. How does that compare to gasoline and regular and GTL diesel?

[AU N EGL]

Think that is more like 60% efficiecy

Here make your own bio-deisel

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#biodnew

[knighty]

Originally Posted by chewymonster

[
They basically took a bone stock engine and put new turbos on it. And probably did some some software tweaks.

what a load of rubbish, sounds like you made that up......the engine was heavily reworked, lowered the compression ratio, new low line dry sump, not to mention completley re-worked injectors and fuel system, with specially built turbos from Garret, and a Pectel ECU with specially written software........Mountune and CAT (Perkins) did a fine job on a shoe string budget and in such a short space of time.......

there used to be a really interesting article on DSC but its now gone.......it made 530 bhp and about 1100Nm of torque, yes very heavy, and produced a lot of smoke before they fitted particulate filters.........it did 18 laps on a tank of fuel at lemans, and posted a ridiculously high speed trap time, and it raised plenty of eyebrows considering it was such a rush job.......this was back in 2004/5 ish.......credit where credits due in my opinion, Ian Dawson new it was the way to go, and he was right.

Ian Dawson tried to take it testing back in may 2007 at Snetterton, god knows how it went........I bet it will race again, yes probably in a newer chassis I think.

[AU N EGL]

Did a little reading on the bio-deisels web sites

"
Grow your own

Rapeseed (Brassica Napus), or canola, produces about 2,000 pounds of seed per acre, yielding about 100 gallons of vegetable oil for fuel, and 1,200 pounds of high-protein meal (seedcake) that can be used for livestock feed or as an organic fertilizer.

The seedcake could also be used to make ethanol, and so could the several tons of crop wastes.

Yields from soybeans are about 60 gallons per acre, from coconuts more than 200 gallons per acre, and from oil palms more than 500 gallons per acre. (See Vegetable oil yields.)

For small-timers, one bushel of canola (rapeseed) produces about 3 gallons of biodiesel -- that's about three to one by volume.

For a range of oilseed presses, from hand-powered presses you can make yourself to 150-tons per day industrial models, see Oilseed presses at our Biofuels supplies and suppliers page."

So for an acre of soy beans yields 60 US gallons of fuel. So if I take 100 acres of my farm and plant soy beans, that should yeild 6000 gallons of bio fuel. The avererage Person ( in the US ) uses 10 gallons of fuel each week. I use 25 gallons each week in the truck. which is 1300 gallons per year, not including travel to and from races.

Now the challange is I dont have a tractor big enough to pull a big box seed planter & disker , let alone the spayer for pesticieds, nor the big combine to harverst the seeds, nor the big dryers to dry the beans.

currwent Soybeen prices ( Chicgo Merk- Aug 07 future price) $9.39 / bushel at a US average of 40 bushes per acer hmmm something does not add up here? 40 bushes = 60 gallons?? Corn is 1 1/2 bushels per acre and how much fuel yield??

Dont see the costs nor the envorinmental bennifts of bio-fuels with the costs of planting and harvesting PLUS refining the seed oils. but I am sure more educated ppl will show us how.

I guess I could make it work if I applied for government subsities to off set the cost, or just rent that 100 acre filed to a farmer for a few hundred dollars a year.

[Speed-King]

Now the challange is I dont have a tractor big enough to pull a big box seed planter & disker , let alone the spayer for pesticieds, nor the big combine to harverst the seeds, nor the big dryers to dry the beans.

Why do it all by yourself?! Why not outsourcing the processes you don't have the equipment for to someone who has?

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Why do it all by yourself?! Why not outsourcing the processes you don't have the equipment for to someone who has?

Well thought about that too. but I dont have a 100 acres of cleared farmable land. All my land is in tree farming for timber production.



Back to topic, I still not sure about bio-fuels for a competitive race team. For maketing purposes and the PC of being <koff> GREEN, ie get more sponsors money, is a good way to go. I just do think WINNING is possible at this or in the near future. 10% ETOH with Petrol Maybe.