Calling all marshals and potential marshals

[Stoowert]

I need your help!

As a recently elected member of the BMMC SE Region's Committee, I was wondering a couple of things:

1. If you are a marshal and not a member of the BMMC, why not?
2. What would encourage you to join?
3. Do you care about the BMMC, or would you just turn up at your circuit, help to run meetings, have a laugh and go home?

It seems the BMMC was originally set up to provide marshals for race meetings. This is now largely redundant, what with clubs having extensive marshals databases and the ease of volunteering online.

So what is the point of the club? Subsidised overalls? Perhaps, except it costs more to remain a member than one can save on overalls. How about the insurance? Yes, but why do we have to apply for insurnce cover? Why isn't this covered by our annual subscription?

I hope this hasn't been too negative, but I believe passionately in the club. It is, after all, the ONLY club for marshals. I would like to think the club should do more to help marshals and marshalling. How about every Marshal's Post being passed as "Fit For Purpose" by a club representative annually?

I told you I needed help! If you feel you can't publicise your thoughts, by all means PM me.

[ascarracinguk]

personally i think there should be only ONE marshals club, the BMMC...there are too many clubs out there...whats the point!!!!

[chezza]

being devils advocate...but if there was only one club then that club would have carte blanche to do whatever they liked (or not)...a bit of competition makes the clubs think.

I'm already a member of Silverstone Marshals Team and also BARC and the SE Centre. To pay out for the membership of another club just makes things too expensive.

[The Fat Clerk]

I agree with Chezza that only having one club is not good.
However the BMRMC or whatever it's now called, is solely dedicated to Marshals and is not attatched to any racing club/series etc, with their hidden genders. People like Chris Hobson (the Chairman) do a damn good job of sticking up for us with the MSA.
I've been in continuous membership for 26 years and whilst there are people (Mike Devine springs to mind) with double that service, I'm proud to be a member and long may I continue to do so. Yes I'm a member of other clubs - Silverstone Marshals Club, BARC & Midland Centre, Nottingham Sports Car club & AMOC off the top of my head, but as far as marshalling is concerned it's the Marshals Club.
The only part of the club I'm not particularly impressed with is the insurance, I don't bother with it because whilst at the start of the season I think I know where i'm going every weekend, the dear old MSA have other ideas, and quite often on a Thursday morning I get the 'help' email which means I'm stewarding somewhere at the weekend.

[numbersix]

Originally Posted by The Fat Clerk

... with their hidden genders...

There's quite a few hidden genders at Oulton Park ...

[HairyDJ]

Some good questions Stoowert!

I joined BMMC just before my first day of marshalling - to get my discounted AWS price, not any further subsidy back then.

I regard BMMC as being the marshals' "union" - no circuit or club related axes to grind and theoretically independent enough to stand up to any club or circuit who abuse the orange army.

At times the wealth of experience can blur a little with the tales of "the good old days", but can be a great help in avoiding repeats of previous problems. Do we have a sufficiently modern outlook to keep attracting / supporting our younger members? Anybody from the iphone generation care to give feedback . . .

The insurance may be a comfort, but is a quite ludicrous process. In one of my other hobbies we have a similar cover for travel to / from as well as during the activity - you're a member, so you're covered, no daft requirement to register every trip. I wonder whether our insurers have been asked to justify the need for the current process, or been challenged more forcefully over this?

Get togethers, newsletters etc are great for building teamwork and friendships, but we (quite rightly) don't lock that down to exclude non-members. I fail to see the logic of each BMMC regional site replicating Julian's volunteering system - especially if we get to dump the insurance registration silliness.

Various folk have written / compiled a variety of documents & guides, but I don't think our web site would be regarded as a great source of education to new / retraining marshals. Whilst still on the web site - why do all the pdf files have such silly numbers instead of sensible descriptive titles - helpful when storing downloads & also more likely to get matched by google searches from potential recruits to the club.

Me - I'll keep on paying my subs and doing what I can to promote the club to marshals new & old, it would be a poorer place without BMMC. The website still comes out at the top of the list for most marshal related "wannabe" searches, which is good - shame that the marshalspost site comes up near the top and seems rather viagra hijacked to casual browsers - I know it's a hard job, but ......

[beltanedeath]

As a newbie, i asked this question a while ago, I suppose it's the "what's in it for me?"

Insurance? cheap overalls? and to be honest not much else that i can see although I stand to be corrected.

I think there are too many clubs and if you don't know the system when starting out it's all a bit intimidating.

I should point out I don't "belong" to one circuit or discipline and I work shifts, I wanted to keep my options open, I think if you did belong it might be different?

I also stand to be corrected on this, but isn't the quality of the posts sorted by the track? I was told the the posts at cadwell had been re vamp when Mr Palmer took over the track, they certainly are better at cadwell than croft and to that end, it should be the track who are responsible for the maintenance/refurbishment of the essential features, for me that includes our posts.

As for the getting and keeping young/new blood? It's something I've thought about, when as being 40 I'm the youngest on post....sometimes by 20 years, on one occasion I shared a post with some one who was 64 and a man who was 76 I think. And to make myself perfectly clear I don't say that in a disparaging way, age had no impact in their ability to do the job. I mention it because I wondered where will the marshals come from in 10-20 years time.


I am the iphone generation, probably the very start of it! but never the less...
I don't know what would make me want to be in a car marshal club, I belong to plenty of clubs and have membership cards. I guess you need to supply something I want or make it compulsory.

Racesafe, the guys that do british superbikes, world superbikes and moto gp in the UK. You pay £30, do your training, get a free set of probans and waterproofs, a personal pass, car pass and caravan pass, which makes you feel like you belong. (and i'm not interested in the whole car versus bike thing, save that for another thread).

In short then before I waffle on too much, my personal thoughts are that each track should have its own marshals club,(to which you would pay a nominal yearly fee), which is affiliated with all the other tracks marshals clubs so you are a member of all clubs (letting you "work" at different tracks (a bit like working mans clubs, which I just about remember!)). Theses clubs would then be overseen by one body, which would aim to standardise things like training, radio procedure etc etc.

I realise this doesn't really help but I thought I'd share.


Sean

[Piglet]

I'd echo the insurance requirement, one year I got nearly to the end of the season and realised that I hadn't actually sent any dates to BMMC so hadn't triggered the insurance cover

[Tal Aras]

The club could do more at promoting marshalling. I've got young children and its surprising how many motorsport related events happen away from circuits e.g Dads Day Out at the Top Gear track, Monster Machines at Legoland, Kop Hill Climb. If the club could sort out some display material, I'm sure some of us would be happy to man a stand and promote marshalling. We'll catch the sort of person who might not go to a circuit but could be interested - as a parent the ticket for my wife and the kids in free makes for a great day out.

The key thing is, as a non-profit making club we're not promoting a rival attraction.

[MacGWC]

The requirement to "register" days marshalled goes back to the days when we had to keep detailed records for the Insurance Company of who did what where. This has not been a strict requirement for a few years now but it is still helpful for the Club to know what is going on, especially with overseas activities.

However, let me say that no fully-paid up member, attending an "approved" event (i.e. MSA permitted, MSA Certificate of Exemption and a wide range of events not covered by MSA Personal Accident Insurance) has ever been refused a legitimate claim for injury. Thankfully, the incidences of injury are rare but remember, too, that BMMC benefits are paid without the "means testing" present in most other PA insurance policies (including the MSA's). This is of considerable benefit to those marshals who are retired, carers, housewives or otherwise not in paid employment at the time of the incident.

Similar extention to risk, beyond that supplied by the MSA and, again, a much wider range of events, is contained in a Public Liability policy held in the Club's name for up to £5M.

The Marshals' Club has a proud record of innovation - the first ever Training and Grading Scheme for marshals (taken on by the MSA as their national scheme), many circuit safety features arose from Marshals' Club suggestions. The Marshals' Club was the first to report on the reducing number of marshals and the Team Wilson/BMMC/BTCC recruiting campaign has been the singularly most successful -ever- recruiting campaign for new marshals and it was this campaign that was largely responsible for the growth in recent years from a low of 22,500 marshalling days to the current 40,000 marshalling days a year. Many of the changes you see currently, on alternative marshalling methods, came first from a report submitted to the MSA and the FIA by the Marshals' Club.

Currently, marshalling overalls are virtually free to members and we are working on a closer partnership arrangement between circuits, organising clubs and "the Authorities" to better ensure marshalling facilities are maintained to a good standard.

Most of this is documented on the Club web site www.marshals.co.uk and in "50 Years of Motorsport Marshalling", which records the history of marshalling in the UK and has earned some £5,500 so far for Club Funds.

[Steve Milward]

I'm a member of the BMMC, BARC and Silverstone and I see benefits to being a member of all of them.

One thing that is worrying me though is the talk of insurance in the thread. I thought being a BMMC member was enough to be covered, why isn't it, what needs to be done to activate insurance cover

[ascarracinguk]

There are several reasons i think there should be ONLY ONE marshals club the bmmc....

1) insurance is important....thats why im with them
2) the bmmc is not associated with organisers and therefore only have marshals in mind....for us thats important
3) people like chris hobson etc are all passionate and ALWAYS have marshals welfare in mind
4) IF there was only 1 marshals club then more decisions about marshaling standards, welfare etc can be made more quickly and efficiently, with marshals in mind. having several organisations means its harder to organise and means that marshals are more fragmented...and more importantly the marshals voice is more fragmented....

....call me synical but maybe each organising club wants their own marshaling club because they have their own agenda and it suits them to keep marshals voices fragmented...that way we arent as strong as one unified group of volenteers!!!

can...worms..open??? barrage of abuse ensumes!!

[Richard Duvall]

Firstly, well done Stoowert for taking the time to represent us marshals on the committee.

I've been a member of BMMC since I started marshalling 4 years ago. For my first year I was also a BRSCC member as I continued my membership there after my former life as a racer. The cost of BMMC membership is relatively minimal in the grand scheme of things in being a marshal. The biggest cost for all of us has to be travel and accomodation (with the exception of the odd person who may live within a few minutes walk of a circuit.

Although the overall subsidy is a handy bonus, I see the main role of the BMMC as representing marshals with regard to standards and methods of working. If any of us are unhappy with the way things are, and there are a number of hot topics like the grading system and communications, we have committee members like Stoowert champion our views.

With regard to insurance, like many, I keep forgetting to register the dates I have volunteered for. However, I don't see why we need to register as we sign on each day so I think we should be automatically covered for each event we work at.

The BMMC does not actively involve itself in providing marshals for events as this is handled by each event organising club. One thing that has puzzled me is why some circuits such as Silverstone have their own marshals club. I do most of my masrhalling at Brands Hatch so wonder if we should have a club there?

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by MacGWC

let me say that no fully-paid up member, attending an "approved" event (i.e. MSA permitted, MSA Certificate of Exemption and a wide range of events not covered by MSA Personal Accident Insurance) has ever been refused a legitimate claim for injury.

That's good to know as I also find I've either volunteered late or not sent in details.

I'm a BMMC member and have been virtually since I started marshalling. Insurance and discounted overalls were the original triggers, but the work of Chris Hobson and the other committee members in trying to make things better for us keeps me a member. No-one else has our best interests at heart without distraction of trying to represent other parts of their club.

[gachjoel]

personally for me, i started out with BARC and have plodded along quite nicely, never been approached or spoken to me about BMMC.
so not sure what the benefits for me would be joining the club.
as far as the insurance goes, i do believe i am covered by BARC and there meetings.
not wholley sure on what cover is given by the MSA for other meetings

[rocketcar]

As a relativly new marshal I hadnt a clue of the role clubs played untill someone explained it to me. I joined BMMC as a rookie as it did provide me with some usefull infomation; however I wonder what I have actually got out of it as nearly all of the marshalling infomation I have needed has come from people I have worked with on post, or a few helpfull people from individual racing clubs.

[Apple]

Originally Posted by Woolley

I'm a BMMC member and have been virtually since I started marshalling. Insurance and discounted overalls were the original triggers, but the work of Chris Hobson and the other committee members in trying to make things better for us keeps me a member. No-one else has our best interests at heart without distraction of trying to represent other parts of their club.

And a big thanks go to the committee for all the hard work they do from me

[Red_08]

Originally Posted by rocketcar

As a relativly new marshal I hadnt a clue of the role clubs played untill someone explained it to me. I joined BMMC as a rookie as it did provide me with some usefull infomation; however I wonder what I have actually got out of it as nearly all of the marshalling infomation I have needed has come from people I have worked with on post, or a few helpfull people from individual racing clubs.

People on post and the individual Racing Clubs are all valuable sources of support and information too, most definitely. That's how I've found this Marshalling game to work. But by being a member of the BMMC you have an the back up of a large body of knowledgable people, whom are working for our better good. They are constantly in contact with the other clubs and circuits/venues to get or make conditions better for us, added to this, you are provided with a considrable insurance policy as back up each time you leave your house to go out in Orange/Red/Black/Purple (delete as applicable).
And there are discounts to be had on Overalls and many other companies offer discounted goods to members too.

So, it may seem like you're not getting much out of being a member, but in reality, you're getting a lot. For the insurance alone

Elliot.

[Norbert]

I am a member of BMMC, BARC and SMT.

The BMMC insurance scheme covers you from the time that you leave home in the morning until you get back home at night whereas the MSA insurance which is used by the other clubs only covers you from the time you sign on in the morning until you leave the venue at the end of the day. It also covers you (provided you have notified your Regional Competitons Secretary) for non-MSA licenced motor sport events orgainsed by 'recognised' organisations. For example Thruxton Test Days (these are organised by Thruxton NOT BARC), Dads Day Out etc.

Yes we do have register the events we require insurance for but this is a small task to do to ensure that you are covered by a comprehensive AND free insurance service. This requirement is clearly explained in BMMC literature and is easily done using an electronic form available from your Regional Competitions Secretary.

[EvilPumpkin]

I do think BMMC offers a little more than cheap overalls and insurance myself. An MSA recognised grading system and the ability to marshal internationally are not to be sniffed at. Plus there is the training and the training documentation.

I guess if you've always been using to having these basic facilities, you don't count them as benefits. But believe me, they are. Don't undersell what the Club offers!

As a non-UK member, a bit more online capability would be helpful for me. Particularly for membership. I've just realised that I haven't renewed our membership this year - mostly because the forms got lost in the Xmas clutter and I suspect they ended up in the recycle bin in a panic clean when someone was coming to visit! I now have to download the forms and try to put together a sterling draft for payment, which keeps getting put to the bottom of the pile on the "to do" list.

It's a petty niggle, but if I could just go online, fill out the form and pay with CC or paypal, you'd have had our renewal weeks ago! I suspect that for other people, that may be the case too. If it's a question of web expertise in order to get it up and running, we have enough web type people on this site that we could fix you up with someone who could assist!

[Peter Scillitoe]

Originally Posted by Norbert

The BMMC insurance scheme covers you from the time that you leave home in the morning until you get back home at night whereas the MSA insurance which is used by the other clubs only covers you from the time you sign on in the morning until you leave the venue at the end of the day.

I stand to be corrected, but my understanding is that some years ago the MSA marshals insurance was revised so that it too covers you from the time that you leave home in the morning until the time you get back home at night.

[MacGWC]

Originally Posted by Peter Scillitoe

I stand to be corrected, but my understanding is that some years ago the MSA marshals insurance was revised so that it too covers you from the time that you leave home in the morning until the time you get back home at night.

Yes, the MSA does cover to and from MSA approved meetings. BMMC PA insurance covers this, plus travel to and from non-MSA approved events and events overseas. Marshals' Club members attend a wide variety of approved events, beyond those controlled by the MSA, and enjoy at these events additional cover for both Personal Accident and Public Liability. Like all insurance cover, we hope it is never called upon but it is there if needed.

Some alternative schemes are catching up with the insurance innovations the Club introduced but we still remain ahead in the much wider scope of cover offered and the non-means tested way benefits are paid.

To settle the other major point raised, any Marshals' Club marshal who is a fully paid up member at the time of any incident will be covered under both the PA and PL policies.

One of the principal benefits of the Marshals' Club is that it exists solely for marshals; it has no other agenda.

[Nighthawk]

Have been a Marshall for 14 years now and have never felt the need to join any club and it has never held me back.
I dont feel the need to join any club, Marshalling is by todays standards a expensive hobby what with the cost of fuel/Camping/hotels. So having a further expense of club fee's is not something i want...
But if i where to join a club then it would be the BMMC...

[Stoowert]

Thanks everyone! I think I see the BMMC as a form of "Union" for marshals. The Club should should have the same kind of input a trades union would have at the workplace. Before I get shouted down by people saying they don't agree with trades unions as such, I was a trades union representative in my previous life in the finance industry. The union worked very closely with management on a number of things, mainly Health & Safety, but many other things. We only discussed saleries once a year, and we never had any strikes...period.
I would like to see the BMMC working closely with circuits and secondly, racing clubs in improving the lot of the average marshal. How?

1. The siting of marshals posts
2. The provision of clean toilets, accessable during racing
3. Sound protection for everyone (Yes, the land-line monster, again!)
4. Proper walkways behind arco (this is being delt with, by and large)
5. There must be other things....

I don't propose any kind of "Direct Action" to bring these about, just a will to get things going. There seems to be a general air of contentment in some quarters of our calling, and after seeing how other countries fare, I feel that contentment a bit miss-placed! Comments?
BTW Thanks George, It's good to get the insurance thing sorted...

[chezza]

As an aside the positions of posts are usually dictated by the MSA if I remember correctly rather than the circuits.