Cooper T51 chevy

driftwood · 27 Apr 2006, 18:39 (Ref:1596444)

coopper T51 fitted with chevy engine is coming up for sale by auction
anyone out there have any ideas as to who would have raced the car or even built it
I suspect it could have been a Sprint or Hillclimb car from the 50-60`s
There where other Coopers fitted with chevy`s and a Maserati engine & even a Ferrari with a Chevy !!

**John Turner** · 27 Apr 2006, 19:58 (Ref:1596511)

That's a history question, drifty!

driftwood · 27 Apr 2006, 20:48 (Ref:1596534)

is that your final answer or do u want to phone a friend??

so what your saying is i put it in the wrong thread!
ok ive now sussed that there are 2 Historic threads on 10tenfs

Are you able to move it across?

**John Turner** · 27 Apr 2006, 22:31 (Ref:1596588)

Wake up man; I've already moved it! You had posted it in Historic Racing Today forum, whereas you were asking about the history of the car, so I've moved it into here;the Motorsport History forum; there's only one history forum!

It's a good question though, so what about this Cooper Chev, anybody?

Ted Walker · 28 Apr 2006, 07:38 (Ref:1596732)

The car is thought to be the the ex David Hepworth car that he used mid 60s.It was probably built up from from bits.Its been in the same ownership since the late 60s

driftwood · 28 Apr 2006, 08:33 (Ref:1596767)

John Im going to get the blonde hair dye now

Ted your on the lines i expected to hear it had to be a car that was either well known in its day or run by some one like david
have you actually spoken to him about it or have any records fotos in action?
i have a pal interested in the car (too far away to chase down info) but with these scents of info he can then call/mail people for more details
If you have more news PM me or psot here

Ted Walker · 29 Apr 2006, 07:27 (Ref:1597353)

Unfortunatly David Hepworth died some years ago,I have drawn a blank as to the cars origins PRIOR to Hepworths ownership.

driftwood · 29 Apr 2006, 07:48 (Ref:1597361)

having spoken to Hepworth Jnr who has seen the car with Davids old mechanic they cannot confirm its his car at this stage so
"Where there 2 cooper chevs" around at this time??

story is the car was in a nissan hut for many years ( 30 or so??) in scotland but there is a weston super mare link

With regards to Davids Cooper passing hands the comment was North Wales quarry mining machine trader buying old cars at the time and he may have bought the car- Any ideas anyone who this could be?? We are talking
mid 60`s when most of us where either babies or at Kindergarten so its going to be difficult to find any mature fans still alive who may recall those days even Roy Lane was not running at the time

Ted Walker · 30 Apr 2006, 08:21 (Ref:1597992)

The last owner bought the car in 1967 from Colin Watts in Burnham-on-Sea in Somerset. Colin (who has also died) might have bought the car from Hepworth to replace his 1100cc Cooper JAP, but never used it. Have spoken with a lot of people from the area but no joy.

Alan Brown · 3 May 2006, 07:10 (Ref:1599852)

There were several Cooper Chevrolets about in the 1960s. Bryan Eccles had one in 1963 which Allen Brown discusses on oldracingcars. Chris Summers had an earlier one (1958 leaf-sprung F2 according to Mason). This went to Mike Gray who was killed in it at Barbon 1964. Did Chris Summers have another? I believe he had a Cooper Monaco Chevrolet for a short time in the mid 1960s. The Weston Speed Trials in 1963, won by Chris Summers in a Cooper Chevrolet, had G Balls in third in a Cooper Chevrolet. Was it a different car?

Ted Walker · 3 May 2006, 07:35 (Ref:1599862)

Its neither the Summers cars or the Eccles one. G Balls is a new one

allenbrown · 4 May 2006, 17:08 (Ref:1600770)

I found mention of many Cooper-Chevs when I was researching the Cooper T53 article on OldRacingCars.com but I was concentrating on the lowlines so ignored any of the earlier cars such as the one at the auction.

One that I do recall that hasn't been mentioned yet is the car that Alan Eccles (no relation, I believe, to Bryan) raced in 1964 and 1965. I vaguely remember seeing a picture of it in Autosport which convinced me it was a T51 although David McKinney had it in his notes as a T53.

Allen

Ted Walker · 5 May 2006, 04:18 (Ref:1601006)

The Alan Eccles car was indeed a T53

allenbrown · 5 May 2006, 06:06 (Ref:1601018)

Are you sure Ted? Do you know which one? Do you know what happened to it next?

David McKinney · 6 May 2006, 12:29 (Ref:1601709)

Alan Eccles raced a T51 from 1962 ro early 1964, then the T53

allenbrown · 11 May 2006, 21:34 (Ref:1606382)

As I continue to rumble through 1960s libre (for reasons I'll explain soon), I finally found a picture of Alan Eccles' Cooper-Chev. It's in Autosport October 2, 1964 p526 for those who have access.

It's a rubbish picture but the car is lined up alongside a Mk3A Junior and I'm pretty sure it's not a T53. I'm not good on pre-lowline Coopers but I wouldn't even say it was a T51. It has a front radiator the size of a barn door, a wide nose and a very upright driving position. The radiator could have been an addition for the Chev or maybe the nose has been cut back to improve cooling? It could be a Mk IV (i.e. a T51) I suppose.

This could be the picture I found once before. What do the experts think?

Also out in a Cooper-Chev that season was Peter Richardson, another new name to me.

Allen

Ted Walker · 12 May 2006, 15:34 (Ref:1607144)

Is the confusion over Alan Eccles and BRIAN ECCLES. Both ran Cooper Chevy Brian Eccles ran a T53 Alan Eccles ran an earlier car

allenbrown · 12 May 2006, 16:14 (Ref:1607202)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted Walker

The Alan Eccles car was indeed a T53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted Walker

Is the confusion over Alan Eccles and BRIAN ECCLES. Both ran Cooper Chevy Brian Eccles ran a T53 Alan Eccles ran an earlier car

Yes, I think there might be

Allen

David McKinney · 13 May 2006, 07:51 (Ref:1607679)

The Alan Eccles T51 I referred to a couple of posts ago was Climax-powered, and used by John Wales from 1964; it is quite possible I missed a V8 engine gong into it
During 1964 A Eccles took over the ex-B Eccles T53-Chevrolet
Re the Autosport photo, I'd go for T53 on the basis of its flatter bodywork and wider screen that earlier models, but you have to ignore the butchered nose.

In response to your earlier question, Allen, Peter Richardson campaigned a T51 (reputedly ex-Rob Walker) 1961-65, originally with 1500 FPF but possibly with a Chevrolet by the end of that period. Alan Stubbs shared the driving of this car in 1964 and 1965

allenbrown · 13 May 2006, 08:20 (Ref:1607708)

I had just come across Alan Stubbs - you gave the answer before I posed the question.

The pre-Kincraft 'big-banger' libre winners were:

Chris Summers - Cooper T58 [F2-4-58] - Chev 4.6/5.4 - 11 wins (June 1962 - Sep 1963)
Mike Eyre - Cooper - Buick 3.5 - 1 win (Apr 1963)
Peter Richardson - Cooper - Chev 5.0 - 2 wins (Mar - May 1964)
Chris Summers - Lotus 24 [942] Chev 5.4 - 18 wins (May 1964 - Aug 1966)
Alan Eccles - Cooper - Chev 5.0 - 7 wins (Aug 1964 - Sep 1965)
Tommy Reid - Crossle 8F - Ford 4.7 -- accounts vary --
The Kincraft's first win was June 1965 and nothing was ever the same again.

Also out in 1965 were Jock Russell's Russell-Ford (a Lotus 18/21) and Macartney-Filgate's "ex-Summers" Cooper-Chev. It makes me wonder how many Coopers Summers had as a picture of Macartney-Filgate's Cooper in early 1965 looks a lot like the auction picture.

Eccles had been racing a Cooper-Chev earlier than Aug 1964 but suddenly becomes a lot more competitive at a race at Silverstone on 3 Aug 1964 where he manages to overcome the twin-cams at last. I could believe that he had acquired a different Cooper but Autosport makes no mention of the car. I don't have Motoring News for 1964.

Allen

**John Turner** · 13 May 2006, 09:19 (Ref:1607765)

It would be interesting to identify all the pre Kincraft V8 single seaters of this ilk, wouldn't it? As a general rule, and despite no doubt having to be hacked about to accommodate the bigger lumps, I wonder whether they would have retained their chassis identification plates. It would also be interesting to establish, how many, if any others apart from the one mentioned by drifty, still exist in their V8 form!

driftwood · 13 May 2006, 09:37 (Ref:1607778)

I must break my recent silence over this thread and say well done chaps at your diligent research- i am rather concerned at the number of beers you must be consuming whilst looking through your magazines!!

I think John you will be correct in assuming the hacking of the chassis to get chevy installed will be a reason why plates may dissappear plus the fact back then they will not worry about the "history" of a car or even its ID as they have the car they want for that period of racing

Yes we can look back in horror at the thought of what they did to cars but consider us today taking say a Frentzen GP winning 199 Jordan yanking out the gearbox and fitting V8 chevy and LG600 gearbox to go Libre racing because the car is cheap and has nowhere to run in its original format
We would then have an obsolete & cheap F1 car with cheap power just as the guys had in the 60`s
Mind you if you tried that with a Ferrari the Monza mafia would be over quick enough to sort you out !!

driftwood · 13 May 2006, 10:27 (Ref:1607803)

I have pillaged this snippet from the H n H auction listing on the car purley for research purposes only- i will not be held responsible for any mistakes discrenpancies law suits due to copyrights from pillaging the text or anyone who is taken ill with alcohol poisoning whilst staying up till the wee hours reading through their magazines for info however if you wish to try suing please contact my lawyers Messrs Scrooham Shaftam & Scarper County Sligo

It would be lovely to say that we know everything about this car but the truth is that we don't. It has no chassis number or indeed any markings or identifying tags that would let us know what it was at day one or indeed later.
So what do we know. We are more or less certain that it was a Type 51 Cooper when new, which of course would date it around 1959, and the rear and centre body sections are definitely original and the front section is also believed to be original. It has some Type 53 bits on it, which of course would be natural as it has been worked on and upgraded in period, to the front and to the rear and it would seem to probably have received some front end damage at some point as the two very front members of the chassis are parallel rather than converging. There are two letters in the file of history. One letter is effectively a receipt for the purchase of it on the 16th August 1967 by the late Mr. K. Mackie (the car is entered into the auction by his brother) at a price of ú495. It was sold by the estate agency firm of F.S. Gardiner & Co of College Street, Burnham-on-Sea but there is no indication whether this was as a principal or as an agent for an undisclosed client. It was though by then already fitted with its V8 Chevrolet engine and the other shows what an enthusiast he Mr. Mackie was as it is from Sunbeam-Talbot Ltd as he once owned TWK 2 - the Mille Miglia car.
The car is in beautiful unmolested 'barn-discovered' condition. It is missing the instruments but in all other senses would seem to be 'all there' including the superb and seemingly rare set of Weber carbs all individually numbered as follows: 46DCF3 276; 46DCF3 46; 46DCF3 72; 46DCF3 45 and the Ersa gearbox.
So whose was it?
We have no idea where it started life or as what but certainly it could have been a Grand Prix car. There has been a worldwide forum going on via the website and we do know that the knowledge is out there. There were some 8 or 9 cars with V8 power after Chris Summers started the ball rolling with John Harper as his right hand man, and most of those are still 'missing', so it is difficult to be certain which one this is. However we are showing two photographs of what we are certain is this car and they were taken at the B'ness Hillclimb in Scotland - but who is driving?
There is an opinion, but that is all it is, opinion and not fact, that it could have been David Hepworth. A period racer who completed in all the B'ness events from 1960 until its demise says: "Chevy's or Daimlers were run by John Mackin, Geo Keylock, Peter Westbury in his early days, David Harrison, and Hepworth and the photo's are from the early part of the period of big engines in Formula cars. Geoff Gartside came on the scene a little later having taken part in Formula 3 and Westbury's Cooper had his Daimler engine. Last year I took the two photos in question to Shelsley with me and had a consultation with Tony Marsh and Roy Lane, two contemporaries from those days, and the conclusion was David Hepworth."
David Hepworth was running his Healey with a Chevy engine at the time so was well versed in the technology and indeed could have put that engine in the Cooper and he would probably have wanted a 'car needing work' for that project so this one would have been ideal.
We therefore have to say that we do not know the answer so the choice is yours. It must be a real car, no-one would fake one this well, and anyway we know exactly where it has been since 1967. The finding out which car it was could be even more fun than the rebuild and the racing afterwards.
Good hunting.

allenbrown · 13 May 2006, 11:50 (Ref:1607843)

Found one! Not a good angle but what do we think of this? Eccles followed by David Bridges BT14. Is that a T53?

The image is copyright Autosport but I think we can reasonably claim Fair Use here. I'll take it down if anyone objects.

Allen

**John Turner** · 13 May 2006, 13:58 (Ref:1607891)

Well, OK Allen, let's see. (It certainly looks more lowline than T51)

However, Drifty, yours is a total breach of copyright (you MUST know that surely? - see our rules & FAQs!). I've emailed H & H to seek their permission to leave it there. Hopefully, they will take the view that it is just more publicity for their sale. Their link is here:-

http://www.classic-auctions.com/contacts_index.html

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