British F3 Silly Season 2012

[jondownunder]

What the hell? 24 cars last year, 16 this year...

Only Carlin from the British series? So is it that the tyre situation has put off the British teams for good?

[strider]

Originally Posted by jondownunder

What the hell? 24 cars last year, 16 this year...

Only Carlin from the British series? So is it that the tyre situation has put off the British teams for good?

I had an idea this was coming, but not so bad. I understood Double R were going, but evidently not.

Only Carlin from BF3 and then only with 4 cars rather than the usual 6. A couple of other regulars, Pipo Derani and Lucas Foresti have found drives with other teams, but that's it.

You have to think the tyre situation is the cause. There were 28 cars at Spa and it was a great sight. The Europeans were on the pace immediately because the Cooper tyre is quite simply better and easy to come to grips with. This was a point that Renger van der Zande made strongly when he came to BF3 a couple of years ago.

[strider]

Just noticed that British F3 champion-elect, Felipe Nasr, is not among the Carlin four. That's damning in itself, because it means his manager, Steve Robertson, has advised him not to go.

[strider]

After talking to a number of people at Rockingham over the weekend I have the distinct impression that changes are afoot for British F3. We should know more within the next week or two, but I hope very much that Humpty Dumpty is not headed for a big fall.

[strider]

Originally Posted by strider

According to Autosport this week, there's now a strong possibility that the new Dallara chassis will not be introduced next year after all, which would mean that the present chassis will have had a 5-year span, with updates of course.

I heard from one of the teams today that the new chassis will be introduced after all. Just as well for Dallara because they have built 20 of them already!

[M Greenslade]

British F3 has for decades been the UK's premier single seater championship producing many F1 stars and champions and yet I fail to understand why out of the ten rounds this year four of them are held abroad, when circuits like Croft and Thruxton don't get a round. I know it is all down to cost, but please bring back the days when F3 when to places like Mallory Park and Cadwell and if Touring Cars can go to Knockhill why not F3. The British F3 Championship in my humble opinion should be wholly run on UK tracks where UK fans can get to - rant over!

Bladders................

[strider]

Originally Posted by Valker

The introduction of the new Formula 3 engine has been postponed until 2013. I heard Piedrahita was the only tuner planning to build an engine for the new rules...

That's relatively old news, although at least one other engine builder has firm plans to build a new one for 2013 and, judging by previous efforts it will be a good one.

Talking to the British F3 teams at Donington last weekend I get the impression that not all of them will get new chassis next year, although all the major players will. The others will keep the cars they have and run them as National (Rookie if you must) Class cars. This will actually be a good thing, because this year the National Class has been very poorly supported.

[CATMAN]

There should be more cars on the British F3 grid in 2012.
Double R as the Dallara parts dealer with their Formula Merchants arm will have been first with their order and I understand Carlin have ordered along with others. There is talk of ten new B class cars using the current chassis in 2012 and a stop to the unhealthy 6 car international Carlin setup. Carlin could try and run a second team under the parent Capsicum branding but would have to run from seperate premises and team management I've heard.
Large outfits running ring aroud the rules with 4 or six cars have been a problem in the past in other formula's. For F3 to be financiall viable all the teams have to get a fair crack at the drivers and budgets.

[strider]

Very interesting post CATMAN. You've been hiding your light under a bushel if you've been a member since 1998 and only made 160 posts!

I agree that that six cars are too many for one team. Your solution might work, but the teams really would have be separate and not be allowed to park next to each other the in paddock either. Carlin have just opened new premises so they can store all the their different teams - GP2, GP3, Renault 3.5 and F3 - under one roof so I'm not sure how that would work.

[Alex K]

Rookie Class number, numbers... were pathetic this year, esp. after bart pulled out, good to know teams are planning to put more entries on entry list of RC. Strider do we know what teams are planning to run current chassis spec in RC?

[strider]

There are a couple of interesting stories in Autosport magazine this week.

The first is that there is talk of British F3 returning to Pau next year. It would form part of the FIA International Trophy, which makes sense because it would combine the BF3 grid with what remains of the F3ES one - there are 11 cars at Valencia this weekend. Next weekend there will be 21 BF3 cars at Silverstone.

The second was that the BF3 team's association, the original FOTA, held a meeting at Donington and it was agreed by a majority vote that no team should be allowed to enter more than 4 cars. This was obviously aimed at Carlin, who have 6. Trevor's response was typical, saying that in that case they would finish 1-2-3-4 rather than 1-2-3-4-5-6!

In fact, it could work out quite well, because Carlin could buy 4 new cars and race those, but keep a couple of the present ones as National Class cars as the Carlin Junior team!

So far as new cars are concerned, I don't know specifically, but I would expect Carlin, Double R and Fortec definitely to go for them, which leaves a question mark over T-Sport and Hitech. Sino Vision will pretty definitely stay with what they've got.

[Deemun]

Originally Posted by strider

There are a couple of interesting stories in Autosport magazine this week.

The first is that there is talk of British F3 returning to Pau next year. It would form part of the FIA International Trophy, which makes sense because it would combine the BF3 grid with what remains of the F3ES one - there are 11 cars at Valencia this weekend. Next weekend there will be 21 BF3 cars at Silverstone.

The second was that the BF3 team's association, the original FOTA, held a meeting at Donington and it was agreed by a majority vote that no team should be allowed to enter more than 4 cars. This was obviously aimed at Carlin, who have 6. Trevor's response was typical, saying that in that case they would finish 1-2-3-4 rather than 1-2-3-4-5-6!

In fact, it could work out quite well, because Carlin could buy 4 new cars and race those, but keep a couple of the present ones as National Class cars as the Carlin Junior team!

So far as new cars are concerned, I don't know specifically, but I would expect Carlin, Double R and Fortec definitely to go for them, which leaves a question mark over T-Sport and Hitech. Sino Vision will pretty definitely stay with what they've got.

The Rookie class (hate that name!) could attract teams from MSA British Formula Ford next season. Fluid Motorsport (08 National F3 Champions), Jamun Racing & JTR all considering it.

[Alex K]

Will teams with current NC car specification (F305-F307) will be allowed in Class?! NBE Mugen is the mandatory engine, or are they allowing Spiess and HWA!?

[strider]

Originally Posted by Deemun

The Rookie class (hate that name!) could attract teams from MSA British Formula Ford next season. Fluid Motorsport (08 National F3 Champions), Jamun Racing & JTR all considering it.

I hate that name, too, and have done since it was first announced. I may quote you! It would be great if all those teams were to join the hopefully re-named National Class next year.

Originally Posted by Alex K

Will teams with current NC car specification (F305-F307) will be allowed in Class?! NBE Mugen is the mandatory engine, or are they allowing Spiess and HWA!?

I'm pretty sure the NBE Mugen will remain the mandatory engine, Alex. They have enough engines to service about ten cars.

[CATMAN]

Carlin have a new factory at Farnham that is due to bring all their teams together.
But they haven't moved in there yet or opened it although they have moved out of Aldershot. Carlin F3 have been working swapping cars out of the trucks at their Farnorough storage facility and they have been using their base at Pembrey, and they have been scrabbling around still using part of Chessington. They have taken the Chessington wind tunnel apart and need another base for that as it will not fit in the new factory that most of the team consider to be to small any way. A building for the wind tunnel needs to be where there is an adequate electricity power feed and that requirement excludes many industrial units. As they still need another building it wouldn't be a surprise to see it housing race team or teams as well.
I understand that Carlin are not likely to get in to the new premises until after Macau.
Whatever Trevor Stella Artois Carlin says, Carlin is not his any more. Chilton-Capsicum own it and hold the purse strings. Plenty of rumour of TC and the Carlin name being on borrowed time. New factory and new deals could signal all change

ps
Believe I was one of the early forum members in Graig Antill days before forum post data was reset. Former full time Motorsport Pro, have been retired to Aussie Gold Coast for a few years but have family ties and commitments in the UK at present and have plenty of old friends and son in Motosport

[CATMAN]

Letters have been recieved today saying that Capsicum trading as Carlin will be at 7 Coxbridge Business Park, Farnham from the 17th October.
I'm still lead to believe that they will not get fully moved in until after Macau.

[strider]

Trevor knows the score, even if he might prefer others not to do so. So far as Capsicum is concerned, there is a lot of good will in the Carlin name where aspiring drivers are concerned.

[CATMAN]

Carlin has its team managers and staff, debatable as to how much the Carlin name means any more.
There are enough driver managers, drivers and driver families who don't want drivers as a close party of the negative culture within Carlin. The Carlin F3 team has been a very divided team this year despite the PR front, their have been warnings and it will be interesting to see how long Capsicum will leave the current regime to continue.

[strider]

I disagree completely. I've been around British F3 quite a lot this year and there has been no sign of a negative culture or divided team within Carlin. Of course there is fierce competition, but you would expect nothing less when there are six competitive drivers and cars.

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder regarding Carlin, which is a shame, because it undermines your posts.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by strider

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder regarding Carlin, which is a shame, because it undermines your posts.

This is a very strange comment to make. I've found CATMAN's posts nothing other than insightful and informative, from somebody clearly very close to people in the team.

[EastonNeston]

I agree with 'Strider', there is an obvious negativity and almost animosity towards the team in his posts.

He is very well informed, but comes over as having a touch of bitterness against the team and people.

[davyboy]

On the basis of what he's told us, if we believe he's very well informed, then we must take it that what he's giving us is pretty close to the truth. Whether we like that or not is a different matter. Otherwise what else are we to do... believe that he's not well informed and/or he's telling porkies ??!!?? Ask him to clam up so he doesn't share what he knows with us ?

I'm very sorry but [regrettably once again] I have to disagree with Strider on this one

[strider]

Originally Posted by davyboy

On the basis of what he's told us, if we believe he's very well informed, then we must take it that what he's giving us is pretty close to the truth. Whether we like that or not is a different matter. Otherwise what else are we to do... believe that he's not well informed and/or he's telling porkies ??!!?? Ask him to clam up so he doesn't share what he knows with us ?

I'm very sorry but [regrettably once again] I have to disagree with Strider on this one

Dealing with the last paragraph first, it doesn't bother me in the least and there's no need to apologise. I expect it and worry about it not one iota.

The first is more important. The guy has popped up out of the woodwork despite having been a member since 1998. Yes, he appears to be well informed, but only about one particular team and it's slightly malicious, gossipy stuff, so of course you're interested. We shall only know in due course whether he's truly well-informed or just shooting his mouth off to impress people.

I know most of the British F3 teams and have done for years. They tell me all sorts of things, but usually it's in confidence and I'm certainly not to going to post it on here just to impress people. The stories will come out when the time is right. I might drop a hint here or there, but that's all.

Sorry to disappoint you, but the friendship and trust of the teams is more important to me than trying to make myself look good to you guys.

[CATMAN]

If you are unaware of the problems and dislikes within Carlin Strider, you are obviously not as well informed as you think or you have been swallowing the Carlin spin. With 500k or 600k + F3 budgets obviously Carlin and other teams play a smart game. They even had the team building gig this week, ouch!
I've no chips or anything about Carlin, I just deal in facts!
You'll be telling us next that you believe Chilton just popped by with a few bob and it was a straight restructuring hand for Trev
You probably also know that Trevor was also a regular early days follower/member of this forum and probabaly still is Control freak or what

[chunterer]

Ok, ok guys and gals, this is just a quick note to ask everyone to continue to discuss the reason of the thread and to avoid going off topic about other things that inevitably lead to users blood boiling and unecessary tit for tat stuff please.

The NISS section has some great contributors whom we are grateful for but please let's not have it tainted by off topic arguments.

Cheers
chunty!

Oh my other point might be if we're going to be talking about next years British series can we discuss that in a separate thread and i'll move the relevant posts across when it's up and running!