More about the 'budget cap' and other stuff

[Marbot]

Max has sent a letter to the teams asking them for a minimum figure for the cap.Also,as many as eight other teams have been in touch with Cosworth about an engine supply and three other teams may be granted a slot on the 2010 grid.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74704

All of this will be discussed on the 29th at the WMSC meeting when perhaps another slot will become available on the grid in 2010!

[Burnsie]

Originally Posted by Marbot

...three other teams may be granted a slot on the 2010 grid.

26 car grids? I like the sound of that

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Burnsie

26 car grids? I like the sound of that

26 competetive teams can only be a good thing.

There's barely 2 seconds between all the current teams now during qualifying,which certainly wasn't the case the last time we had 26 cars in F1!

It looks like Cosworth is going to be busy this year.

[ECW Dan Selby]

Huge news, and greats news I never got a chance to catch the large grids back in the mid nineties, so it'll be nice to experience that on a competitive playing field (he hopes).

Selby

[Burnsie]

Originally Posted by Marbot

There's barely 2 seconds between all the current teams now during qualifying,which certainly wasn't the case the last time we had 26 cars in F1!

Good point Marbot, but to be honest I couldn't see a team entering Formula One unless they're going to be relatively on the pace straight away - particularly since they will have the same budget as every other team on the grid. Some might argue that we may need to see a return of the 107% rule in Qualifying just to be on the safe side, but I don't think that it would be needed.

[ECW Dan Selby]

In fairness these don't seem like last-minute throw togethers... They claim they have all the appropriate preparation equipment in order to build a competent F1 car.

Selby

[Burnsie]

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

In fairness these don't seem like last-minute throw togethers... They claim they have all the appropriate preparation equipment in order to build a competent F1 car.

Lola and Prodrive, yes. But USGPE...?

[av8rirl]

The question that I want answering is: Can you be even field a team in F1 for £30m a year? I thought I read that teams using this budget would have unlimited testing, unlimited engines and rpm, and more...

Chassis: £ ?m
Engines: £ 8m
400 staff @ £30k per head: £ 12m
Travel: £ ?m
Drivers: £ ?m
Testing: £ ?m

And this morning I saw on another thread that the £30m may be cut to £25m... so what are the chances of anyone being able to manage on this (seemingly unrealistic) budget?

[Racer 35]

Originally Posted by Burnsie

Lola and Prodrive, yes. But USGPE...?

My thoughts entirely. I admire them for trying it, and I wish them success, but I ca't help but worry for them developing a whole new car and team so isolated from the the technology and service providers that Europe has..

[Burnsie]

Originally Posted by av8rirl

And this morning I saw on another thread that the £30m may be cut to £25m... so what are the chances of anyone being able to manage on this (seemingly unrealistic) budget?

I would like to hear a proposed budget-cap figure from all of the current teams, but as you suggest, £30m does seem to be slightly unrealistic.

Max Mosley: "I actually think it could be done for £25 million but that's just my opinion, all my advisers think it should be more."

[Marbot]

BBC's David Croft said it may go as high as 40mil in an interview on BBC five live this afternoon.

[Burnsie]

Well even if the budget-cap rises as high as £40m, it's still much better than the £250m-plus expenditure which we used to see. I'm fairly indifferent to the end figure, as long as it doesn't discourage the new teams from entering the sport next year.

[duke_toaster]

I don't now how it works, but I think the budget cap shouldn't include the cost of engines (Cossie crate unit) and gearboxes (XTrac?). I don't know how they will enforce it for the large teams (it's a non-starter there), but as an option for non-manufacturer teams it would be a good idea. I don't know what the technical differences will be, I'd rather it be simple such as a lower minimum weight or a few more revs.

A 26 car grid would be interesting, with 28 or 30 preferable provided there isn't prequalifying. That would be a surefire way of driving teams out of business.

[ECW Dan Selby]

Originally Posted by av8rirl

The question that I want answering is: Can you be even field a team in F1 for £30m a year? I thought I read that teams using this budget would have unlimited testing, unlimited engines and rpm, and more...

Chassis: £ ?m
Engines: £ 8m
400 staff @ £30k per head: £ 12m
Travel: £ ?m
Drivers: £ ?m
Testing: £ ?m

And this morning I saw on another thread that the £30m may be cut to £25m... so what are the chances of anyone being able to manage on this (seemingly unrealistic) budget?

Driver's salary would not be part of the budget cap, apparently.

And yes, apologies, 2/3 new teams seemed to be well prepared efforts

Selby

[ukaskew]

Originally Posted by Marbot

BBC's David Croft said it may go as high as 40mil in an interview on BBC five live this afternoon.

As the current teams are strongly opposed to a two tier F1, won't they just suggest a budget that they can feasibly attain? I'm thinking more in the region of £70-100m. The new exclusions (driver salaries, marketing, hospitality, motorhomes) would seem to go some way in making that attainable.

[P38 in workshop]

Will the capped budget include a contribution to the costs of auditing the expenditure?I feel sure the FIA will require independent verification.It might be that the more imaginative teams would set up a Cayman Islands offshoot to meet the costs of some of the travelling personnel and their attendant activities.It should not be forgotten that it was a thorough and detailed examination of the wording of the regulations that led to the double diffuser situation.Similarly creative minds are sure to seek ways to circumvent the intention of any other limiting regulation.

[Pingguest]

The budget cap is very difficult to enforce. Teams could easily commit fraud. And what about changing currency rates?

What about teams deciding to stop developing this year's car and spend all the saved money on next year's car?

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

And what about changing currency rates?

I expect that everyone will be dealing in $

Originally Posted by Pingguest

What about teams deciding to stop developing this year's car and spend all the saved money on next year's car?

Which I suppose they would be entitled to do if they are willing to forego this seasons championship.

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by Marbot

I expect that everyone will be dealing in $

That won't resolve the problems with changing currency rates. The British Pound could lose value compared to the US Dollar, while the Euro could gain on the same time.

Which I suppose they would be entitled to do if they are willing to forego this seasons championship.

Well, stopping development for this year's car itself would make teams to save quite a lot of money.

[Sodemo]

Perhaps VAG could be tempted to enter with the Audi or VW brand?

[duke_toaster]

With a Cosworth engine? They aren't allowed to enter their tractors in F1 - the only factory racing that VWAG do with petrol is the DTM (?).

EDIT : Interestingly, through a roundabout process the engine powering the DTM "A4s" started off as a Mugen unit ...

[Sodemo]

They dont have to have a cosworth engine though do they?

Thats merely an "option" is it not?

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

They dont have to have a cosworth engine though do they?

Thats merely an "option" is it not?

It appears that it might be the case that budget capped guys will be running the Cossie unit and Xtrac gearbox. Even if it isn't mandatory it would be an attractive option.