New SRO GT2

[joeb]

SRO has brought back GT2.
http://www.dailysportscar.com/2018/0...ighlights.html
It is intended to be the GT4 concept of allowable development but on more powerful cars. I am interested to see who is building cars for this. And I wonder if the cars will be faster than gt3?

[tux]

The impression i get from the press conference is that although the cars will be more powerful they are likely to be heavier and have very little aero because Ratel still wants GT3 to be the "premium" brand. Im not convinced there is that much demand, after all buy a GT3 or GT4 car you can race pretty much anywhere, this GT2 class will only be certain championships. Good thing is im wrong about almost everything so its going to end up a massive success.

Anyone watch the new Porsche GT3 testing at Monza on Youtube? During those videos there was a unidentified turbo 911 "cup" car on track, i wonder if that was designed for this new GT2 class?

[Bcarr6]

Originally Posted by tux

The impression i get from the press conference is that although the cars will be more powerful they are likely to be heavier and have very little aero because Ratel still wants GT3 to be the "premium" brand. Im not convinced there is that much demand, after all buy a GT3 or GT4 car you can race pretty much anywhere, this GT2 class will only be certain championships. Good thing is im wrong about almost everything so its going to end up a massive success.

Anyone watch the new Porsche GT3 testing at Monza on Youtube? During those videos there was a unidentified turbo 911 "cup" car on track, i wonder if that was designed for this new GT2 class?

This new gt2 spec does sound like it sits in the Cup spec class. Porsche/Ferrari cup anyway, I know the Huracan is kinda a different league

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by joeb

SRO has brought back GT2.
http://www.dailysportscar.com/2018/0...ighlights.html
It is intended to be the GT4 concept of allowable development but on more powerful cars. I am interested to see who is building cars for this. And I wonder if the cars will be faster than gt3?

In a straight line, they probably will be. Less aero allowed, which will generally mean less drag, but more power. Question is how much will the cornering ability of the GT3s affect the overall lap times.


Honestly, this sounds exactly like what PWC needs right now to supplement GT3.

[BSchneiderFan]

It’s rather confusing having GT3s ahead of a class called GT2. But what do I know?

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

It’s rather confusing having GT3s ahead of a class called GT2. But what do I know?

If this class takes off, don't be surprised if the names get swapped down the line. It's not really worth worrying about before they even know for sure that the idea will succeed, but if it does, that's a different matter.

[MagVanisher]

Maybe it will be the time for both GTE and GT3 classes to merge. Of course, the problem lies on separating the works team from the customer teams.

By the way, has anyone thought about live streaming of sportscar races other than Youtube (or even IMSA.com)?

[BSchneiderFan]

Ratel says that merging GT3 and GTE would raise costs to an unacceptable level.

[Akrapovic]

It would, and goes against the GT3 customer focus.

However, since they're keeping GT3 and GTE separate they missed a trick. Could've used this to rename everything and have it make sense.

GTE -> GT1
GT3 -> GT2
New GT2 -> GT3
GT4 - GT4

And the new LMP1 stuff could be GTP. Everything would be in 'order'. And IMSA would have GT1 and GT2, which is awesome.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

It would, and goes against the GT3 customer focus.

However, since they're keeping GT3 and GTE separate they missed a trick. Could've used this to rename everything and have it make sense.

GTE -> GT1
GT3 -> GT2
New GT2 -> GT3
GT4 - GT4

That would require the stars to align and everyone be willing to work together.


There's nothing stopping Ratel from swapping the GT2 and GT3 class names, though. Like I said earlier, though, not much point rushing into it before you know if your idea will even succeed.

[seanyb505]

Originally Posted by MagVanisher

Maybe it will be the time for both GTE and GT3 classes to merge. Of course, the problem lies on separating the works team from the customer teams.

By the way, has anyone thought about live streaming of sportscar races other than Youtube (or even IMSA.com)?

Dailymotion, motortrendondemand, proprietary apps, etc.

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

It would, and goes against the GT3 customer focus.

However, since they're keeping GT3 and GTE separate they missed a trick. Could've used this to rename everything and have it make sense.

GTE -> GT1
GT3 -> GT2
New GT2 -> GT3
GT4 - GT4

And the new LMP1 stuff could be GTP. Everything would be in 'order'. And IMSA would have GT1 and GT2, which is awesome.

In my heart of hearts, I've always referred to GTE as GT2, and the Ford as GT1.

[hondafan37]

After the announcement of Stephane Ratel on Friday I think it is necessary to open a thread to discuss about this new series.

https://sportscar365.com/sro/sro-rel...or-2019-debut/
http://www.dailysportscar.com/2018/0...s-concept.html

The understanding I got from the articles is GT2 will have more power than GT3 (Around 100 or 120 Hp more than a GT3), less aero, more weight, be AM only and will be based on more expensive cars but it's not GT1, there are not hypercars here.
I am thinking about Ferrari 812 superfast, Lamborghini Aventador, Aston Martin DB11 or Vanquish S will be the cars for this category, this is the return of the V12s.
With more power this cars will be MUCH faster than GT3 on the straight and braking much earlier on the corners.
These are the things we know about the series but the amount of unknowns that I have are many and here I raise some to discuss:

*How much slower than a GT3 will these cars be?
*Can we see the Ferrari 812 superfast, Lamborghini Aventador, Aston Martin DB11 or Vanquish S or will these brands adapt their GT3?
*What other models of cars can we see here?

Ratel also indicated the new class could serve as a safeguard should GT3 cars get too expensive, or the FIA’s ongoing concept of GT harmonization between GT3 and GTE-spec machinery materializes, which in my point of view, is much more likely to happen in the next few years with the arrival of the hypercars at Le Mans that will be taken by some of the GTE manufacturers.

[Mountain Man]

It shouldn't be called GT2 as a starter, that will just confuse people

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

I am thinking about Ferrari 812 superfast, Lamborghini Aventador, Aston Martin DB11 or Vanquish S will be the cars for this category, this is the return of the V12s.

The way it sounds to me is more like they don't want certain cars to be used in GT4(like the Audi R8) and want to give them a more appropriate class.

Originally Posted by Mountain Man

It shouldn't be called GT2 as a starter, that will just confuse people

As I said in another thread, they don't exactly know if the class is going to succeed or not at this point, so why worry about anything more than getting it a name to begin with? GT2 is certainly more reflective of the class's purpose than GT5. If the class proves successful there's nothing stopping the SRO from shuffling names around, but why worry about such before you even know if the class is going to last?

Yes, it's confusing, but GT3 is also an established class name(it's almost a brand name at this point) that should not be changed lightly - same with GT4.

[broadrun96]

I think you'll just see a more street style "aero" kit with street level of hp in the GT3 cars. Doubt any one will adopt a new car unless someone wants to pay wholly for a new toy for this class. Feels more like pulling the R8 and AMG Merc out of GT4 but not sure how the rules will make them stop making the GT4 models without outright banning them and cost capping the cars relative street price. It seems like answer to a question that should have been asked years ago and somehow they made the answer harder and more expensive. In the name of saving money of course. If they had just been stronger and said NO to the supercars and made Audi go with the TT (BMW it with the RS5) and MB with something else (don't know their lineup enough to know is there a decent big engine C that's not too Clarkson?), and maybe Ferrari make a go fast Portofino? Hell Porsche made something other than the 911 go racing so I think the others can deal

[NaBUru38]

This new class is a great idea, but there's too many classes already.

Also, I don't think that it will be amateur-only, despite the promsies.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by Mountain Man

It shouldn't be called GT2 as a starter, that will just confuse people

Originally Posted by broadrun96

I think you'll just see a more street style "aero" kit with street level of hp in the GT3 cars. Doubt any one will adopt a new car unless someone wants to pay wholly for a new toy for this class. Feels more like pulling the R8 and AMG Merc out of GT4 but not sure how the rules will make them stop making the GT4 models without outright banning them and cost capping the cars relative street price. It seems like answer to a question that should have been asked years ago and somehow they made the answer harder and more expensive. In the name of saving money of course. If they had just been stronger and said NO to the supercars and made Audi go with the TT (BMW it with the RS5) and MB with something else (don't know their lineup enough to know is there a decent big engine C that's not too Clarkson?), and maybe Ferrari make a go fast Portofino? Hell Porsche made something other than the 911 go racing so I think the others can deal

I think the articles are clear, Ratel points to sports vehicles of a range greater than GT3, I do not think the point to R8, AMG GT or Portofino.
For me that's why Ratel chose the name of GT2, higher range cars with more power.

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

This new class is a great idea, but there's too many classes already.

Also, I don't think that it will be amateur-only, despite the promsies.

I think like you, for me it is also a great idea. Ratel has in his mind to recreate the fight of the last GT1, Ferrari 575/550, Lambo Murcielago, Saleen S7, Aston DB9, Maserati MC12, Ford GT, Corvette, Nissan GTR with the new cars with little aerodynamic development to not increase costs.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

I think the articles are clear, Ratel points to sports vehicles of a range greater than GT3, I do not think the point to R8, AMG GT or Portofino.
For me that's why Ratel chose the name of GT2, higher range cars with more power.



I think like you, for me it is also a great idea. Ratel has in his mind to recreate the fight of the last GT1, Ferrari 575/550, Lambo Murcielago, Saleen S7, Aston DB9, Maserati MC12, Ford GT, Corvette, Nissan GTR with the new cars.

None of those race or have race intentions other than Ferraris Corsa Clienti program. It's great he intends to use them but I have not heard a single car mentioned. For MB and Audi there's no car they could use so they're eliminated. Corvette sorry that's in the same range as the previous. Ford isn't going to continue the GT or make a new model for Ams so that's done. The GTR, really come on now. Aston can't make the Vantages run without MASSIVE help, the Vulcan program is sold out and huge deal about how limited, they aren't making more.

That leaves Ferrari, they love their 488s racing and only recently brought that in house, Lamborghini could make a V12 Aventador but they are riding a bit of Audi's work for the chassis. And well Saleen is a joke now and Maserati is too just making more badge engineered vehicles with 4 doors. There just aren't the cars, and builders, for this idea of the hypercar. Who is going to build ANOTHER chassis to go racing for Amatuers? There's a reason they use common GTE\GT3 and for a few GT4 cars, there's costs in scaling.

I have yet to hear as successful model of who is going to build hypercars in to race cars. Until then the logic, and statements made by Ratel, of using this class to DECREASE costs means previous chassis with more power and less aero.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

None of those race or have race intentions other than Ferraris Corsa Clienti program. It's great he intends to use them but I have not heard a single car mentioned. For MB and Audi there's no car they could use so they're eliminated. Corvette sorry that's in the same range as the previous. Ford isn't going to continue the GT or make a new model for Ams so that's done. The GTR, really come on now. Aston can't make the Vantages run without MASSIVE help, the Vulcan program is sold out and huge deal about how limited, they aren't making more.

That leaves Ferrari, they love their 488s racing and only recently brought that in house, Lamborghini could make a V12 Aventador but they are riding a bit of Audi's work for the chassis. And well Saleen is a joke now and Maserati is too just making more badge engineered vehicles with 4 doors. There just aren't the cars, and builders, for this idea of the hypercar. Who is going to build ANOTHER chassis to go racing for Amatuers? There's a reason they use common GTE\GT3 and for a few GT4 cars, there's costs in scaling.

I have yet to hear as successful model of who is going to build hypercars in to race cars. Until then the logic, and statements made by Ratel, of using this class to DECREASE costs means previous chassis with more power and less aero.

Maybe you're right and it's like you say but from the reading of the articles I draw another different conclusion.

[tux]

As far as i understand it the cars will be similar to GT4 spec in terms on aero and chassis but have 600-750+ HP. Considering that the gap between GT3 and GT4 lap time around SPA is roughly 12-14 seconds i can see how the cars would fit in the "middle". My concerns would be that these cars will be relatively expensive to build, the drivers will likely already be racing in an SRO series so could reduce grids elsewhere and SRO already has an amateur only sprint racing series in the GT Sports Club which has never really achieved great grid numbers.

[Sodemo]

Haven't they basically just tried to re-invent GT4? Not sure what the purpose of this "new" GT2 is...?

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Haven't they basically just tried to re-invent GT4? Not sure what the purpose of this "new" GT2 is...?

It feels more like GT4Plus, GT4 street style with GT3 power. More power over grip, yup sounds like a perfect spec for Am drivers. If you own stock in the repair companies and car builders

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

It feels more like GT4Plus, GT4 street style with GT3 power. More power over grip, yup sounds like a perfect spec for Am drivers. If you own stock in the repair companies and car builders

We need to stop agreeing like this.

Yeah that was my first thought too. The cars sound awesome. Less aero, more power. Closer to the road car power levels. Great cars. For Am drivers? hmmmm, that's not where I'd have put them.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

It feels more like GT4Plus, GT4 street style with GT3 power. More power over grip, yup sounds like a perfect spec for Am drivers. If you own stock in the repair companies and car builders

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

We need to stop agreeing like this.

Yeah that was my first thought too. The cars sound awesome. Less aero, more power. Closer to the road car power levels. Great cars. For Am drivers? hmmmm, that's not where I'd have put them.

And where does this put costs? If you start with an expensive car, going racing with it won't make it cheaper. What does a GT4 car cost? How about GT3? A racing version of a super car has to be pricey.

[Akrapovic]

GT3 cars cost between £250k-£750k ($330k-$990k) I believe. The 488 GT3 original cost was €429,000 (around £380k or $500k) but I suspect the Evo kit pushed that up a little.

The AMG GT4 is €198,950. (£180k or $240k).

Numbers are just straight exchange rate conversions, so not that accurate other than the base Euro price I think.