TOCA "Genius"

[Greem]

[In the interests of balance this is a *discussion point* - I'm not trying to take any side, before anyone gets started]

Presumably (I can't find YouTube videos yet) lots of folks/everyone saw the FIV/Hoover/Oil treatment truck at the weekend being demonstrated at the Snetterton BTCC meeting...

If not, TOCA have invested (going off the TV coverage) approximately £30k on a pickup truck with detergent pressure washer, vacuum sucker and air blower to clean up oil/fluid spills which (and I paraphrase) will stop marshals having to work quite so hard to clean them up.

I've seen a lot of reaction to this, little of which has been of a positive nature; but our friends overseas (specifically in the US and Canada) have a lot of variations on trucks like this which work perfectly acceptably and mean that the likes of us don't have to point our backsides at the oncoming traffic in order to put some absorbent powder down to clear up a spillage.

What do the assembled think, bearing in mind that nobody has seen this in action yet?

[rotation]

Here are the press releases.
http://www.btcc.net/2015/07/01/safe-...s-up-at-croft/
http://www.btcc.net/2015/08/09/btcc-...at-snetterton/

[ron1902]

anything that removes dangerous fluids quickly has to be a good thing......although a good idea ,maybe too costly for some circuits to use every time

[S griffin]

Anything that helps the marshals get things done quicker and efficiently has to be good, so I'm glad to see this used and shown on ITV4

[Slipstick]

Seems like a good idea and it worked nicely on a little puddle of oil. I wonder if it's got enough contents to deal with the relatively common few hundred yards/half the circuit long oil slicks that are traditional at HSCC and particularly VSCC meetings. But it's still got be easier than all that dust and sweeping and I bet it works a lot better on a wet track.

OTOH I'm old enough to remember us rebuilding tyre walls and even putting catch fencing back up. Many more technical advances and there will be nowt left for us to do. Then we might have to pay to watch the racing .

Steve

[deadsquirrel]

For the puddle scenario, you're working in a fixed location, which makes it an easier thing to deal with. The problem with the cement 'solution' is that it blocks up the tarmac and stops it draining, amongst other bad things.

I've certainly seen at Donington that after a heavy spill has been dressed, the circuit staff go out at the end of the day with pressure washers and remove the cement. They obviously don't need to dry the circuit afterwards.

Presumably, being truck mounted, it can follow you along a line of fluid. It would make sense to me to have the system on a skid that could be placed into the bed of any pickup/back of a transit van. Therefore, you would not need to buy the truck, just hire something in or use a circuit vehicle.

I've always prefered the kitty litter method of spill treatment - I don't know why its use hasn't caught on in UK. Its easier to spread, including as Greem says by truck based hoppers (so the half circuit dump can be treated much quicker), doesn't get over applied as cement, causing less dust.

( http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/...94_634x421.jpg ) This is an example - most of the hoppers can be hung on the tailgate of a pickup truck, so again, there's no cost of buying the truck.

On the separate issue of FIVs etc - I do see it coming, generally replacing incident marshals. I can see posts having flaggers (who have some response responsibilities) and 'communicators' as per most other countries setup. The flaggers can respond to get hands on a car and then call in extra support as needed.

[johngee]

I thought it was just an excuse for Alan Gow to show off in front of the TV cameras!

[Mike Harvey]

Well it looked slick on TV sorry. But as already said puddles, all good but how about the long trails, probably to fine for the vacuum and is the water tank big enough . I've muttered many times after long sweeping that the current method really works but seems very old school and time consuming. At 360 the other weekend it took us about 40 minutes with the bodies we had from several posts to dress a first corner incident with two big leaks. Yeah the recovery of the cars is bundled in that tbh. Time is money to circuits so anything to keep the day moving you'd think would be welcomed.

[VIVA GT]

Although in principle it looked like a good idea when I saw it on TV on Sunday, it didn't seem that practical. As others have already said it'll work well for the odd large, but contained spillage (for example where an oil cooler is ruptured in an accident and the car doesn't move from that point), but from what I've seen from both sides of the fence, the most common spillage problem is a long trail of oil all through the corner or even worse.
I also felt that it looked like (as I say) a good idea, but one that's been thought up by someone who actually has no idea of the practicalities of cleaning up oil spells etc. on a racetrack!
I've filed it in my brain under the heading of 'Good publicity for TOCA and a vanity project for Alan Gow, but not something that's going to be world changing'.

[exflagman]

I wonder how many shovels and brooms you can get at B&Q for the cost of that outfit?

[Woolley]

Genuine question, as I don't know the answer. There are no intended insinuations or complaints, I'm simply interested in the thought process that's gone into this.

Staffed by volunteers? Or paid staff?

Either has it's pitfalls, I just wondered what TOCA's intentions were.

[The Fat Clerk]

At 360 the other weekend it took us about 40 minutes with the bodies we had from several posts to dress a first corner incident with two big leaks. Yeah the recovery of the cars is bundled in that tbh. Time is money to circuits so anything to keep the day moving you'd think would be welcomed.[/QUOTE]

And a fantastic job you all did, you kept the delay to a minimum, with even the Breakdown blokes seen with brooms.

[Richard Duvall]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is an FIV?

[Bodysnatcher]

fast intervention vehicle.

I still think the TOCA vehicle's primary role is to ensure that the TV coverage of the BTCC early laps are not obscured by dust clouds.

Other than that, a detergent cleaning system would be welcomed on a wet, oily track.

[rotation]

Originally Posted by Richard Duvall

Excuse my ignorance, but what is an FIV?

It used to be 'First Intervention Vehicle'.
Maybe it's now 'Fire and Intervention Vehicle'?

[bludvl_x19]

Something along the lines of these work very well at a racetrack down under. Nearly 3kms (almost 2 miles) of oil cleaned up in ~10 minutes with a crew of 9 people across 3 utes. It may not be to the liking of some in far flung places, but it does the job here in the antipodes.

[SouthportFC Fan]

I assume this clean up truck is owned by TOCA, so will only be available when TOCA's in town.

Will the circuits want to invest in this hardware when

a - It's the organising clubs have the hassle of getting the meeting finished before they run over the curfew, not the circuits, or pay for the consequences.

b - the clubs have willing volunteers armed with brooms and buckets and spades 'like coiled springs' ready to leap into action at the end of each track session.

These devices will be out of the reach financially for most clubs that run race meetings for the leakiest cars, so wrt this device taking over one of our 'most enjoyable' jobs, it's unlikely to happen in the near future at most circuits.

[PVDA]

Before anyone comments the guys in bludvl's photo are wearing a seat belt and are not just sitting on the tailgate as has been hinted at elsewhere.

The lead vehicle has one person dropping clean up dust from a hand held drum while the other crew member moves a broom from side to side to widen the "pour" to suit the width of the spill. The following crew then spreads the dust to cover the bits missed. Both vehicles then drag brooms over the spill on a few runs to help rub it in and a high speed pass blows most of it away.

The track in question has 3 Safety Utes so can either work as a team or attack 3 separate areas independently.

I've been told cement isn't good for the bitumen surface as it prevents it from expanding and contracting and causes the surface to crack. painted lines do the same believe it or not.

[PVDA]

Originally Posted by rotation

It used to be 'First Intervention Vehicle'.
Maybe it's now 'Fire and Intervention Vehicle'?

FIV has changed to Medical Intervention Vehicle down here as to use the word "Fast" might send the wrong message and the driver think he/she is in a race car

[DAVID PATERSON]

Originally Posted by PVDA

I've been told cement isn't good for the bitumen surface as it prevents it from expanding and contracting and causes the surface to crack. painted lines do the same believe it or not.

Also, cement is not good for the lungs of the trackside workers or the drivers and cars in the next race.

[Bozzdriver]

I'll wait to see it in action first before I comment

[thepits!]

Originally Posted by Bozzdriver

I'll wait to see it in action first before I comment

have you? because you have!

[VIVA GT]

Just watching the TV Coverage from Knockhill. A coming together & oil spillage during the MSA Formula race got me expecting to see Alan Gow's TONKA TOY in action, but no, (very effective) marshals with cement & brooms were the height of technology!
This is no criticism of the Gang in Orange, they did a great job, for me it just shows what a white elephant this supposedly wonder machine really is.

[Woolley]

The whole thing reminds me of the story of the difference between the American and Russian space missions. NASA spent millions creating a pen that would write in space. Russians used a pencil.

I'm sure there are better ways - and certainly materials - than cement brushed in, but an expensive truck with hired hands and technology which appears to be highly effective on small spills doesn't appear to be the solution. Probably useful on the grid or in the pit lane, but out there on the big track, no.

[pauln]

Originally Posted by Woolley

The whole thing reminds me of the story of the difference between the American and Russian space missions. NASA spent millions creating a pen that would write in space. Russians used a pencil.

Urban legend, I'm afraid. Pencils have their own problems in space (bits breaking off and floating around) and while a "space pen" was developed it was by Fisher, not NASA.

http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp