Danica Patrick for F1? (merged)

VilleneuveTracy · 10 Jun 2005, 20:38 (Ref:1325077)

What do longtime F1 think about A) The quality of talent in the IRL, especially vis-a-vis Champcar and European F1 feeder series (such as F3000) and B) her talent?

link

Sheila M · 10 Jun 2005, 20:42 (Ref:1325081)

Nice idea but F1 is so political and so boring it would ruin her.

Leave Danica where she is and let her become a proper champion.

Kicking-back · 10 Jun 2005, 20:46 (Ref:1325084)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheila M

Nice idea but F1 is so political and so boring it would ruin her.

.

Boring?

Obviously you don't watch it.

Sheila M · 10 Jun 2005, 20:49 (Ref:1325088)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

Boring?

Obviously you don't watch it.

No, I fall asleep!

VilleneuveTracy · 10 Jun 2005, 21:13 (Ref:1325095)

Where does the IRL rank in the open wheel hierarchy?

Kicking-back · 10 Jun 2005, 21:16 (Ref:1325096)

In terms of the top level series, F1 is at the top, IndyCars probably 2nd.

Rennen · 10 Jun 2005, 21:25 (Ref:1325099)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheila M

No, I fall asleep!

What are you doing here then?...it's way past your bed time!

maximus · 10 Jun 2005, 21:46 (Ref:1325111)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheila M

No, I fall asleep!

If you aren't going to argue your point constructively, then don't bother.

And being champion of IRL pales in comparison IMO. You can't be World Champion in the IRL can you? I find your ignorance a little irritating.

maximus · 10 Jun 2005, 21:52 (Ref:1325117)

Back on topic anyway and I strongly disagree with Jenson. Taku is much lighter than he is, so using that theory shouldn't Jenson be slower than Taku?

Snrub · 10 Jun 2005, 22:06 (Ref:1325128)

It's harsh and unfair to critisize someone with so little experience, but some context is required.

Danica has yet to win anything. Back in Formula Atlantics (champ car feeder series) she had the best car and still was unable to win in two years. Now she's in the IRL with one of the best cars and she garnered a lot of hype. Realistically every driver in F1 is better than her, with the possible exception of the Jordan/Minardi drivers and maybe a test driver or two on lesser teams. Finally, if you watch how she's driving in the IRL, it's clear that she's not as good as say a Dan Weldon or a Tony Kannan.

What's the talent level in the IRL? Very good, but not quiet as good as Champ Car was in the late 90s. Argueably Champ Car has a better field at the moment and better than the late 90s, including 4 past champs and 4 ex-F3000 champs. AJ Allmendinger dominated Barber Dodge (2 steps down from Champ Car) as a rookie (Danica was there), then dominated Atlantics as a rookie (Danica was also there) and is now in his second year of Champ Car. He's doing well, about as well as Justin Wilson, but both he and the team are learning and he's hardly conquoring all. Danica was never anywhere near him in the feeder series. Ronnie Bremer (who did win in Atlantics last year) and Andrew Ranger (18 year old who was an impressive rookie in Atlanics last year, but whom Danica beat in the championship) are in Champ Car and are performing quiet favorably compared to other rookies with F1 pedigree like Bjorn Wirdhiem and Timo Glock.

luke · 10 Jun 2005, 22:30 (Ref:1325136)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

Boring?

Obviously you don't watch it.

Kicking-back, I don't think he meant the racing just how and what F1 is and the politics, lets not remember how our last female driver in F1 13 years a go.

BSchneiderFan · 10 Jun 2005, 23:24 (Ref:1325156)

Giovanna Amati wasn't a patch on Danica Patrick, though.

JohnSSC · 10 Jun 2005, 23:24 (Ref:1325157)

You are painting with a very broad brush there, Snrub. Danica was very successful in karts winning many races as well as championships. A Mr. K. Raikonnen could tell you that while helpful, it is not required to have race wins in cars on your resume. He had a very short career after karting in the lower formula and he seems to be doing ok in F1 at the moment.

I am not saying Danica has that type of raw talent, but she qualified and finished fourth at the Indy 500 and has qualified 3rd for tomorrow's race at Texas. At least for the race start she is ahead of all but Scheckter and Enge.

I don't think we can slag her off at the moment as having less talent then some of the folks mentioned in your post. She is certainly better than either Jordan driver as well as Albers. I would want to see Freisacher in a good seat as he seems to be better than the car. Having an F1 race seat does not automatically make you one of the 20 best drivers - there are guys testing right now (AD, Wurz, Pizzonia etc) who are easily better than the Jordan/Minardi tandem and Danica.

BSchneiderFan · 11 Jun 2005, 00:05 (Ref:1325170)

I think the point about wee Danica is that she is unproven, but there are reasons to think that she may simply be one of these drivers who excels in the higher formulae. Some drivers do; the pre-F1 form of Niki Lauda, James Hunt or Nigel Mansell would not necessarily have marked them out as great drivers, whereas the form of, say, Christian Fittipaldi or Vincenzo Sospiri might have done. But until you actually reach F1, one can never know. What we can say is that Danica Patrick looks like she might well be a race winner in the IRL, and if she gets a shot at F1, for whatever reason, then I'll watch the results with interest.

Snrub · 11 Jun 2005, 01:09 (Ref:1325190)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

I am not saying Danica has that type of raw talent, but she qualified and finished fourth at the Indy 500 and has qualified 3rd for tomorrow's race at Texas. At least for the race start she is ahead of all but Scheckter and Enge.

John, I definately agree with you, but with all the Danicamania going on, some sober thought can't hurt. Frankly I'd like to see her succeed, but I'm really sick of all unsubstantiated and unrealistic things that have been said. It's way too early to be talking about her in F1.

In the case of Texas, somehow I don't think holding one's foot to the floor for an entire lap necessarly translates to one's candidicy for F1. Such a lap is simply a matter of doing a better job of minimizing steering input and setup (or in the case of the two in front of her, power). For instance Sebastian Bourdais can do that type of racing very well, but there are many who are better with a proper oval package (eg. lifting). Fortunately for him he's awsome on a road course. (I bring up this example to explain my point but also to be fair to flat out racing) At St. Petes Danica was less than stellar. Briscoe, who's car was probably fairly similar left her in his dust. At the time for some reason she received praise for being a second a lap slower than him.

2112 · 11 Jun 2005, 01:33 (Ref:1325205)

Quote:

Originally Posted by VilleneuveTracy

What do longtime F1 think about A) The quality of talent in the IRL, especially vis-a-vis Champcar and European F1 feeder series (such as F3000) and B) her talent?

link

Back on to the question.
After F1, the quality of the talent is similar between IRL and Champcar. The problem is that it`s hard to judge when one group mainly run ovals and the other turns left and right. Many in the IRL came from CART, and are now in the 5th year using different set of skills. Most of which do not equate to being a good grand prix driver. Scott Dixon was the only one given a serious test in F1.

On the other hand, F3000 champs Bourdais, Junquiera, Wilson and Wirdheim are much closer to the European grooming that is needed to be given a shot at F1, and age wise too.

And Danica must win something, IMO, on a road course also.

WebberForWDC · 11 Jun 2005, 03:41 (Ref:1325281)

It's clear that despite each IRL/champcar field running either the same for CCWS or similar cars/engines for IRL... The teams make a MASSIVE difference in US open wheel racing.

Look at Dixon, from winning to less fast with poor Toyota. Look at F1 pedigree drivers who are less fast in CCWS due to being with non top teams like Wirdheim, Mika Salo, J. Wilson (massive improvement this year going from a lower midfield to a near-top team), C. da Matta especially (PKV aren't sorted at all). Whereas the likes of Ryan Hunter-Ray and Dominguez (not very highly rated?) were able to run top 5 all the time, as their team Herdez team last year was very much a top team.

Bourdais made an impact in CCWS with a sharp team, but if he was with say DCR racing like Timo Glock (I recall?) he would of stuggled to make the top 10 regardless of his performance!

So credit for performing admirably with a good team for Patrick. I think an F1 chance would be interesting and a very good idea, but IRL/CCWS performances do appear to be monumentally team dependant. So other drivings are doing better than what their equipment allows suggests.

Teretonga · 11 Jun 2005, 05:54 (Ref:1325353)

There is also a bone of contention over her weight (102lbs).
In the IRL the cars are weighed without the driver. In Atlantics and F1 they are weighed with the driver. Patrick is fast in the IRL, especially ovals, but is it because she has a distinct advantage...which she didn't have in Toyota Atlantic and wouldn't have in F1...

VilleneuveTracy · 11 Jun 2005, 07:02 (Ref:1325367)

Thanks for the insightful comments thus far.

As most people here probably know, open wheel racing has little popularity in the US so people are impressed by her running well in a few races without even bothering to look at the big picture. The media has been hyping her a ton lately but I did not see her poor Toyota Atlantic record mentioned in any media piece about her. She failed to win a single race in two years in what was apparently the best car. That says something.

How much of a difference does her weight make? WHy wasn't the weight issue addressed in the past anyway? She is not the first "lightweight" in the IRL.

**John Turner** · 11 Jun 2005, 07:48 (Ref:1325389)

She needs to get there on merit with good results; otherwise she will simply become a victim of hype not a beneficiary.

Mr V · 11 Jun 2005, 08:52 (Ref:1325441)

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Turner

She needs to get there on merit with good results

Agreed, this is what the top teams in F1 would be looking for, they don't need her to bring sponsership, so talent and results are what they will be looking at.

luke · 11 Jun 2005, 09:06 (Ref:1325452)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

Giovanna Amati wasn't a patch on Danica Patrick, though.

I'm on about how she was treated, not as a driver as a glamour girl I think.

In the IRL she is respected as a driver etc.

BootsOntheSide · 11 Jun 2005, 09:35 (Ref:1325462)

Maybe a little more respected than her results merit, and I think the weight difference is quite a factor as well. If she can win some road/street races and realy prove herself over time.

WebberWDC, you're over-simplifying things quite badly. Wirdheim is losing out to Bremer (another rookie, from Atlantics) so far this year, while Wilson had a very competitive rookie season, running top 5 in several races on tracks he didn't know. Glock is in the perfectly-respectable Rocketsports team, and has generally outdone Hunter-Reay in the same team. And Servia made the top 10 with Dale Coyne several times last year.

ralf fan · 11 Jun 2005, 13:17 (Ref:1325587)

If she does come into f1 i hope it is for the right reasons ie her pace and not as a huge publicity stunt.... Danica in f1 will bring a huge media frenzy and i hope for her sake that the more 'needy' teams do not exploit this because she does seem to have some good talent.

As for her performing in f1.... i dont see why it should be a problem if she has the pace to cope with the rest... as long as they can sort out the weight factor...

Russfeld · 11 Jun 2005, 13:36 (Ref:1325597)

Becuase if she wasnt a girl you'd be grouping her into the Zsolt/Yoong/Pay-driver-that-you-dont-like category.

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