Is Total Parity The Real Answer?

[Dazz]

I've been having a good long think about the issue of parity in relation to the V8 Supercar series. It is a topic that often has fans divided and everyone has an opinion about how it should be brought about. But before any plans should be put into action to achieve this so called parity, we probably need to first decide what kind of parity we are chasing.

In most peoples minds, parity means that each car is equal in all areas which effect overall performance. Equal in power delivery, weight, suspension, brakes, tyres, drag and downforce. And with total equality amongst the cars, in theory every car in the series will have an equal chance of winning a race. This should mean far less predictable racing with lots of different winners. In principal this new found parity will be the saviour of our sport, freeing us from the domination of one team or manufacturer, and bringing with it new life, excitement and unpredictability to the sport. Sounds like racing nirvana doesn’t it.

So lets fast forward to the first round of the 2003 V8 Supercar series. Surprise surprise, the guys who are known to be good qualifiers are all up the front of the grid, Skaife, Lowndes, Ambrose, Ingall, Bright, Richards, Murphy etc etc. The race gets underway and everything is pretty even, cars are racing close but nobody appears to have any advantage so simply continue to circulate until the the pit window opens. Everybody files in close together and the tyre changes begin. Surprise surprise again, the best teams make the quickest stops and all the cars go out again. The cars with the quicker stops have built a small gap which will now stay stable for the rest of the race because all the cars are performing identically, just as the parity says they should. One car might even pick up a place or two in the pits, but it isn’t an exciting way for it to happen especially seeing as how most of the paying spectators won’t see it happen.

One could then pretty much assume that baring some weird incident, the top qualifiers will be at the pointy end of the field for pretty much every race. The guys who are not great qualifiers will remain at the back of the field and have almost no chance of winning because passing is basically impossible. And the racing has become 32 cars all circulating within tenths or hundredths of a second of each other for the whole race, because the parity is working.

The trouble with this parity formula is that there are almost no variables for anyone to explore anymore. Common sense pretty much dictates that even if every car was equal in its’ potential lap time to the thousandth of a second, you can never have total parity amongst drivers, and therefore the best drivers will always be at the front and so there will never be any great variety in winners.

Has anyone actually thought about having variables in the parity items? Surely it’s the variables that will give an opportunity to gain some advantage over a competitor who might not make the best choice when actually faced with one. So where do we find these variables?

Control tyres are a great idea no doubt about it. But remember the good old days of hearing drivers saying “I’ve picked the wrong compound and they are not doing the job”. What’s to stop having maybe three control tyre compounds available for each round? 12 tyres per car, a soft set, a medium set and a hard set. I realise that cost is an issue, but this would at least introduce a variable into the racing. Do you use up your soft tyres in qualifying to get a good grid spot, or do you save them for the first part of the race to try and pass the cars in front on their harder tyres, or do you go conservative on your medium compound tyre leaving the softies for the end of the race when you can go like crazy to make up spots at the end?

Of course there might develop a bit of a pattern as to which is the best tyre to be on at a particular time, but it might also allow a driver to pick a tyre that is different to try to get some advantage at a different point in the race. Having cars on different tyres also has to contribute to passing to some degree which is one of the main problems of late. It also has the effect of adding interest as nobody will know what car is on what tyre at any given time.

Would it be possible to specify two different diff ratios per round as opposed to just one? Would this give a slight difference in performance on different cars which would allow the possibility of cars being slightly quicker or slower at any given point on a circuit. Once again there is a small cost issue, but I don’t think it would be huge. Whether you wear out four 3.5 ratio sets of gears or two 3.5’s and two 3.7’s makes no real difference in the long run does it? Once again if it introduces a variable that results in the ability of cars being able to pass it has to be worth it.

Maybe someone has an opinion on some other areas where a variable could be introduced on a parity item that could make the racing better for the fans.

I’m also keen to know if anyone else thanks that parity to the n’th degree will not necessarily make the racing any better.

I don't think parity will necessarily stop the better drivers from winning constantly. The cars can be made completely equal, the drivers can't.

I don't really care for the current format of Australian Touring Cars. I would rather see different makes and models of cars rather than just two (which is why I watch GTP and Nations Cup). Personally I wouldn't want to watch a series where any car can win and the result is a lottery.

[racer69]

I think that this 'parity formula' should be dropped. The rules should be written then it is up to the manufacturers to produce a car capable of winning, if they aren't winning, bad luck, work harder.

As of the current situation, i don't really think there is a parity problem. All figure's that Larkham was coming out with on the V8 show about all the top 5 positions filled by Holden etc... the thing he missed is that most of them has been filled by TWR cars, not a mixture of Holden teams.

[RaceTime]

Whilst all cars are basically equal in aerodynamics, performance etc - the results are going to reflect qualifying - as I have said before, parity means no one has any distinct advantage - so while we have these one car on the track at a time qualifying sessions, the car that gets to put its power down best and has the slightly better driver (and no mistaking at present that is Skaife) gets to grab pole.

Because the cars are equal the only way anyone can then get past the pole sitter is to a) nudge him off the track b) hope for something to break c) hope they get done with a penalty or d) if pit stops are involved, hope the team stuff up.

The only other way someone else can get into the lead is to get a better start than the pole sitter - but with the cars all 'equal' this should never happen.

[Dazz]

I think one fo the main problems with whoever is pushing the parity thing to the limit is that they haven'r really looked at the big picture of what it will really do. Their aim is to have a 50/50 split of race wins between Ford and Holden, and indeed throughout the field, so assume that by making the cars totally equal it will happen.

It is possible that it might happen, but it wouldn't surprise me to see a 50/50 split of race wins go to Skaife/Ambrose! I'm exadurating slightly to make a point, but nothing will ever stop the best teams/drivers winning consistantly especially in a so called parity formula.

And the main thing that has been forgotten with all of the parity and penalty arguements is what has happened to the racing? I fear that if this issue is not addressed soon there will be alot more unhappy people around, both drivers and spectators alike.

[DAVID PATERSON]

They're kidding if they think that making all of the cars identical will mean that race wins will be equally shared. What about driver talent, experience, luck, knowledge, effort, money, pit crew, engine building, suspension setups, all of these influence race performance and can't be controllled by parity regualtions.

This is another example of how socialism doesn't work. Life is a journey. If you plan to make everybody even, then you have to decide, will they start even or will they finish even. If everybody starts out even, those who are smarter, luckier or harder working will end up winning more than the others and if you control it so everybody finishes even, noone will try very hard, why would they need to?

[Dazz]

So the question is instead of us true racing fans sitting here collectively complaining about the rules, how do we actually get our ideas heard by someone who could at least take them into consideration and possible do something about it.

I fear that the people in control of our sport are not necessarily the best ones for the job, and while their ambitions for the sport might be good, their way of achieving them are far from optimum.

I know that getting people to agree on matters are never easy but something needs to be done and asap otherwise the sport as we know it will be in big trouble I fear.

[PEPSI]

Originally posted by Dazz
So the question is instead of us true racing fans sitting here collectively complaining about the rules, how do we actually get our ideas heard by someone who could at least take them into consideration and possible do something about it.

I believe there is enough of a brains trust in this forum to come up with some constructive, practical suggestions for the future good of V8 Supercars.

If we could all come to agree on one (or more) I would be happy to present it/them to Steve Reed (Steering Committee)

[Dazz]

That's a kind offer there Pepsi. Now all we need to do is actualy get some practical and relatively achievable ideas together.

In my initial post in this topic I brought up the idea of having two or possible three different compouns of "control tyres" to be used throughout the weekend for practice, qualifying and racing. Would this be financially viable and would it help to introduce some variation and unpredictablity into the racing?

Or do we need to begin at the actual basics of what might be needed before deciding on actual methods of achieving the result.

Simple things like:

Grip - More or less needed? Will less grip improve the racing in general?

Race Formats - Do we need longer/shorter races or a combination of bath?

Pit Stops - Do they really help the racing? SHould we have some non pit stop rounds?

Points System - Do we need a simpler points system? Shoould we have double points races?

Practice days - More or less. Do we need to allocate a system whereby single car teams have more days allocated to them?

Practice sessions - Do we need longer sessions with possible a lap limit per session ala F1. An hour session with maybe 15-20 laps allowed per car for example?

These are some examples with which we might be able to brainstorm over and come up with something better than what we currently have.

[racer69]

Grip - I would say grip would need to be reduced. How we do it, i'm not sure, i would like to see the aerodynamic kits discarded (to SS and XR8 style), however not much chance of that. Maybe narrow the tyres. I like the idea about a different compound tyre.

Race Format's/Pit stops - I would probably prefer a single race, but the trend nowadays is for multiple races. I would prefer no pitstops unless they are really needed (SA500, QR500, Bathurst etc...), but with the equipment that has been bought for this purpose all year round, how about say race 1 without a compulsory pitstop, then race 2 with a pitstop. Also, with QR500 and Bathurst, lose the compulsory pad change, one of the interesting parts of the race used to be who could and couldn't make it through without a padchange, similiarly with who could make it through on less stops than the other.

Points - Same all year, no double points.

Practice - Longer sessions definatly, not too long, but long enough to make it worthwhile so you can learn something

Testing - single car teams definatly deserve more test days than teams with multiple cars.

Amount of cars - No-one gets automatic entry, if 40 cars turn up for 32 grid spots, 40 qualify, fastest 32 get in. If Skaife or Lowdnes for example finished out of the top 32, bad luck

[StuiE]

Grip - Get 'em sideways!

Race Formats - Just one long one, a bit like NASCAR, if not that, a qualifying then feature race DTM style.

Pit Stops - Do they really help the racing? NO, but thats because they all are pitting on the first available lap, they should allow pitting under yellow, that would get rid of some of that, even making them stay out longer so they can pit under yellow, but thats no bad thing .

Points System - Do we need a simpler points system? No double points, no scoring right down the field, do only yhe top 10.

Practice days - More or less. Do we need to allocate a system whereby single car teams have more days allocated to them? Not give single cars more, give 2/3 car teams less.

[andylynn]

The good old days,remember them.All types of cars six cyl Toranas,Ford GT's ,Monaro's, BMW's, Camaro's,Volvo's,Bluebirds. Turbo's,Six's,Eights,and yes even fives and four's,4WD's. Factory cars, not million dollar computers with wheels. Narrower tyres,less spoilers,simpler rules. Passing manouvers,big bore power over small bore power, heavy versus light in the handling department. No REAL dominance, not for long anyway.Cars frequently sideways. Sound like something you want to watch. The powers that be need to know that the fans are getting restless and they need to get the racing interesting again.
The fans are the people that make it all work.If the fans don't go to watch then it all falls in a heap. All the above suggestions are great,but remember that the parity was bought in to make the racing FAIR. The current situation has been bought about by dominance in the past.ie Brock in Holdens, Johnson in turbo's,Skaife in 4WD, just to name a very few of the big wigs of their times.
If you want the parity to go away then you have disparity. How far do you go with it without teams ,fans etc saying that things are not fair. Changing or presenting different sets of tyres or diff ratio's or suspension setups wont do it because that computers will tell the teams what the right combos will be. With the advent of computers 99% of the guess work has been taken out.
If the current situation of parity is to be changed then major changes will be needed.Bring back the other groups so that passing the "back markers" can slow up the front runners and let others to catch up and maybe challenge.
My point is,if fans are upset with the current "boring racing" remember it came about from disparity in the past.
Either put up with it, or watch something else,the good old days are gone.sadly.

[racealign]

Dazz, I think you make some really interesting points. I like that you think outside the circle. I think that there are a number of points raised throughout the replies from other members that highlight some of the probelms and give some possible remedies that might help improve the racing. I would love to see all the members who are interested discuss the fors and againsts and put something forward. I think there is plenty of intelligent people here to come up with something of substance.
I do think though that for any worthwhile comment to be made you have to understand the complexities and problems that do exist. For example the tyre size that the cars are running now are way under sized for the power of these cars. The drivers biggest difficulty is putting power to the road. They test with shock damper valve rates in bump and rebound and fast/slow valve speeds, rear link angles for antisquat geometry, roll centres and rear spring rates to find a set up that will allow them to not wheel spin out of corners...thats why you see the drivers feathering the throttle from apex to exit...thats why they are all relatively softly sprung etc etc..Its one of the reasons (amonst a heap of others) , i think, that the TWR cars are quicker...they come out of the corners better. I think some research by way of a fact finding mission would be neded to get the ball rolling. Any volunteers...lol????

[The Tool Man]

As A ford Fan I dont believe the Parity Problem extends to the entire field. I believe there is a difference between 5 twr cars and the rest of the field be they Holden or Ford.

Watch the Tapes or go to the meetings there is something different with those 5 cars to the rest, they even sound slightly different.

[andylynn]

They just do a better job with what they are allowed to use and how they do it.Don't get down on them because they are consistant and highly professional.Just remember the dominance of Sierra's.

[Woody]

BIGGER BUDGET!!!!! no more said

[andylynn]

The smaller budget teams only have to have one car and they could develope it. Two cars and they are only keeping up with the Jones.Better to have one good car than two **** ones.

[ghinzani]

Total Party has always got to be the answer!

[andylynn]

Does or should TOTAL parity apply to budgets?

[Morris 1100]

The only way to achieve TOTAL parity is to have one company build all the cars and to draw the cars out of a hat!

[RaceTime]

Even that won;t work - you;ll always get someone complaining the numbr they drew wasn't printed with the same type of ink

[andylynn]

So total parity could not exist? Lets go back to the good old days where at least we had the cars racing with the engines that they were built with. The 5 litre is gone,lets get the cars with the 5.7 (holden) and the new Ford v8 and lets see what they can do with them.They reckon the new Ford donk can really perform. Might stop the Holden dominance,although I doubt it.

[andylynn]

Total parity kills the very thing that makes this sport tick, individuality.Without that we would have a very boring sport to watch.We are getting to that now,so lets stop the rot and get back to basics with the sport so that we can have something that resembles racing instead of a merry go round.

[RaceTime]

Originally posted by andylynn
So total parity could not exist? Lets go back to the good old days where at least we had the cars racing with the engines that they were built with. The 5 litre is gone,lets get the cars with the 5.7 (holden) and the new Ford v8 and lets see what they can do with them.They reckon the new Ford donk can really perform. Might stop the Holden dominance,although I doubt it.

It's already up and running by ProCar...

[andylynn]

Doesn't help when they don't put it on tv or even advertise it when it does (or does it )come to W.A. I live about five hundred klms from the nearest raceway in W.A. I always regretted moving from Ipswich (Willowbank). Give me any info you have on procar so that I can at least have a look at it.
my point though was instead of holding the supercars back lets let em go and unchain the potential that we all know they have and stop strangling the **** out of this sport.