The "Armchair Max" thread.

[duke_toaster]

Post your - SENSIBLE - fantasy F1 technical regulations and discuss them 'ere.

Engines, chassis and supply.

• 2 litre twin turbo engines based on road car 2.0 turbos. Horsepower around 650hp.
• Homogolation of engines and chassis. The engine design must last 1 year, the chassis design may only be updated every three years
• More cost control on chassis by allowing full customer chassis and a "must supply price" rule.
• Marginally wider track

Aero

• Ground effect
• No aerodynamic appendages inside the wheelbase
• Very limited front and rear wings

Tyres

• Fat-ass slicks
• Control tyre

Electronics

• TC is banned
• Keep the sequentials but 6 speed

Others

• No KERS
• Before the formation lap, drivers must start engine with a proper starter, not a pnumatic drill up the butt
• 2 heats on Saturday instead of quali
• No teams limit

Other people's ideas welcome, so are ideas/complaints/comments/death threats.

[Sev]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

Post your - SENSIBLE - fantasy F1 technical regulations and discuss them 'ere.

Engines, chassis and supply.

• 2 litre twin turbo engines based on road car 2.0 turbos. Horsepower around 650hp.
• Homogolation of engines and chassis. The engine design must last 1 year, the chassis design may only be updated every three years
• More cost control on chassis by allowing full customer chassis and a "must supply price" rule.
• Marginally wider track

I really like the road car engine idea; that would definately make the manufacturers have a more significant tie-in to road technology, as well as keeping costs reasonable. The performance would also obviously work, seeing as the World Series by Renault engines are derived from the Nissan 350z.

I think homologation under these circumstances is possibly a little harsh, and without constant innovation F1 would be boring to many of the techies.

Lastly, how do you propose to widen tracks? They've already done it as much as possible.

Aero

• Ground effect
• No aerodynamic appendages inside the wheelbase
• Very limited front and rear wings

Tyres

• Fat-ass slicks
• Control tyre

No complaints here.

Electronics

• TC is banned
• Keep the sequentials but 6 speed

One question: Why only 6 speed? What's the possible advantage, and it actually hurts fuel efficiency.

[Dutton]

Stupidly powerful, highly effective turbo engines (designed with the sole intent of moving an F1 car quickly) without a rev limit.

Open up the fuel regs completely (let the teams use whatever they want).

Multiple tyre suppliers, with all teams with full access to all tyre specifications on offer from all suppliers. The teams can swap and change at any point of the weekend. The one limitation would be that different brands cannot be used together at the same time on the same vehicle.

H-boxes.

Monster slicks (I am not worried whether there is a difference between fronts and rears).

General relaxation of chassis regulations to allow for more experimentation.

None of this homologation-long-life stuff.

[Knowlesy]

Old Reynard Champcars on slicks.

1400hp turbo engines.

Proper race tracks.

There we are.

Of course, F1 is reasonably good as it is.

[Dutton]

Not sure race tracks, from that perspective, fall under the scope of the technical regulations...

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Engines & Chassi

• 1.5 Liter V6 Turbo methanol engines
• All teams must build and design their own chassis or have them designed by an external team e.g. Dallara (but Dallara can in this example only supply one team).

Aero

• Reduction of current downforce levels by 50%
• No winglets

Tyres

• Slicks

Electronics

• TC is banned
• 6-Speed sequential gearbox
• Less electronics, more mechanical systems

Others

• No paddles - gearstick is required
• Put a ban on much of the information the teams can get from the cars
• Allow any team to enter, but they must build their own car
• Limit the number of race starters to 28

[Oldtony]

Pretty much what the discussion papers propose

1.5ltr aspiration free. (Supercharged, Turbocharged, Turbo compound etc.)
But with no set specification on the number or layout of cylinders up to 8
Limit fuel flow to maintain safe speeds
No limit on regen energy in 1st season of new regs (Electric, hydraulic or kinetic) Limit storage capacity or delivery capacity in 2nd season.
Free fuel as long as it is produced and marketed in commercial quantaties and is from a renewable source.

Dump the "control corner" idea. No homologation parts specified until 2nd season of new regs.

Aero as proposed (control undertray small wings with moveable airfoils, no other devices) but with turbulence detection free but data logged to ensure not changing ride hieght at other times. Limit size of moveable tabs on wings but free to control operation by driver or electronics.

Transmission free, CVT encouraged, but must be driver controlled.

Tyres free within specified size range.

Teams can run three cars on Friday. Increase no of teams to 15 with Friday qualification to eliminate slowest teams at circuits with limited pit facilities (Monaco & ?)
Retain present Qualifying but find way to do away withb the fuel burn.

Max fuel tank size specified with only one refueling stop allowed.

Limit Wind tunnel testing

[Yannick]

-abolish the forced use of the optional tyre in the race
-limit the number of winglets and boards that are allowed to be used apart from the front-wing and back wing, so that when designers want to introduce a new winglet, they'd have to remove another - and make it a small number, but bring back mass dampers
-bring back the T-car so that teams are allowed to run their race drivers and have their test drivers take part in the meetings on Friday and Saturday morning (that means to allow 3 cars there)
-ban testing on tracks that are on the calendar from once the season has begun until the race at the respective circuit has taken place (this would not limit pre-season testing)
-keep the the testing limit and maybe even increase it, so that more tyre/setup work will have to be done on the race weekends.
-have a constant number of races each season, maybe 18.
-change the tyre geometry (size, number of lines) every two years
-limit the amount of fuel to be used by each car in the time period from Saturday afternoon to Sunday evening, and increase the limit each year - therefore freeze engine development only for during the season
-abolish AntiBlockageSystem, so drivers need to break carefully
-rev-limits are OK to me
-limit the grid to 26 and the number of qualifiers to 30, but no pre-qualifying, please
-Mr Tilke please don't just always follow a single trend of track type for your new circuits: it used to be Tilkedromes, now it's street circuits with lights ...
-the calendar should be made up of a large number of different track types. Bringing back some classic tracks that are now unfortunately no longer up to standard should help on that one. (Hermanos Rodriguez Mexico City, Kyalami, Buenos Aires, a 2nd Chinese GP at a widened Macao Guya circuit, Helsinki Thunder, Laguna Seca) Find sponsors for these reconstruction efforts, and don't let the locals take all the risks, but follow the NASCAR example, where many tracks are also operated from within the organisation.

Thanks for considering.

[Mr V]

Some great idea's floating about, but my fear would be that we get what we had back in the '70's and '80's, a spread of 10 seconds lap time difference between the best and worst cars, which would make the racing even more spaced out than it is now.

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by Dutton

Not sure race tracks, from that perspective, fall under the scope of the technical regulations...

Wide track as in slightly wider cars.

I really like the road car engine idea; that would definately make the manufacturers have a more significant tie-in to road technology, as well as keeping costs reasonable. The performance would also obviously work, seeing as the World Series by Renault engines are derived from the Nissan 350z.

It also encourages new manufacturers to join as most makes produce a 2 litre turbo. Even as an engine supplier, I'd love to see Subaru in F1.

I think homologation under these circumstances is possibly a little harsh, and without constant innovation F1 would be boring to many of the techies.

Bear in mind that currently the engines are homogolated for 3 year periods. The chassis rule is just a cost control thing, and in the 50's and 60's and even in to the 70's tubs, if not, tub designs were kept. In a lot of series, chassis designs don't change as well, F3 chassis designs stay (I think) for 3 years or so.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by Dutton

Not sure race tracks, from that perspective, fall under the scope of the technical regulations...

True, but it's a point worth raising.

(Basically, the point I am trying to make is I think the tracks are worse than the cars)

[Inigo Montoya]

This is F1, for the big boys. Spend what you want. It its too expensive for you, move on... or better yet, don't waste money of multi million dollar motorhomes. Put the money into the car.

1) Eliminate limit on testing hours.
2)Remove the 19K rpm limit on the present engines.
3) Go back to the old points system that rewards race winners.
4) No standardized parts of any kind.
5) Reintroduce Slicks
6) Allow movable aerodynamics and active suspension.

[FPV GTHO]

Bigger tyres (slicks), allowing ground effects again and single element F/R wings are my main concerns. The rest is all fairly trivial to me, as those 3 elements i believe would allow closer racing which is my main concern.

They could race 660cc Japanese K-car engines and still be the technical leaders in motorsport, so it doesnt really matter what the specific details are there.

[Steve Carter]

[QUOTE Allow movable aerodynamics and active suspension.[/QUOTE]

Does this mean you would see a new milleneum version of the BT46B fan car - it was declared to be a 'moveable aero device' way back when - I'd love to see Gordon Murray back with a new challenge!!

[Red]

* 3.5 liters, naturally aspirated engines. No limits in engine's design (that would mean 2 pistons or 50 if they so chose). Obviously no rev limiters whatsoever.

* No ground effect, but allow them to do whatever they want with their wings. And scrap the ridiculously high front wings already.

* I would argue for no traction control as well, but unless they can police it (which they can't) I'd say that TC and automatic gearboxes are ok. (H-gear box? Gotta be kidding me here, when was the last time we had those?)

* 1 hour qualifying sessions, 12 laps each.

* 10-6-4-3-2-1 point system.

Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya

1) Eliminate limit on testing hours.

2)Remove the 19K rpm limit on the present engines.

3) Go back to the old points system that rewards race winners.

4) No standardized parts of any kind.

5) Reintroduce Slicks

6) Allow movable aerodynamics and active suspension.

Quoted for emphasis.

[Pingguest]

Chassis

• No aerodynamic device may create downforce
• A flat-trapped bottom without any sort of diffuser
• No minimum weight
• 215 cm wide

Tyres

• No technical restrictions
• Tyre use is free

Engines

• No technical regulations
• Fuel consumption limited to 150 litres ethanol per race

Driver aids / Electronics

• A ban on tyre blankets
• Only mechanical differentials are allowed
• Standard ECU
• Traction control and drive-by-wire are not permitted
• Manual gearboxes are mandated
• Power braking and steering are banned
• Telemetry is not permitted

Pitstops

• Refuelling banned
• Tyre changes are always allowed, but discourage by a ban on tyre changes, a maximum of four tyre changers and a maximum pit lane speed of 80 km/h.

Qualifying

• A 60 minutes qualifying session without any restrictions to the tyres and laps.

Point awarding system
1st = 10 points
2nd = 6 points
3rd = 4 points
4th = 3 points
5th = 2 points
6th = 1 point

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by Red

* I would argue for no traction control as well, but unless they can police it (which they can't) I'd say that TC and automatic gearboxes are ok. (H-gear box? Gotta be kidding me here, when was the last time we had those?)

Probably around 1991.

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Probably around 1991.

Forti Course used manual gearboxes until 1995.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

After seeing today's GP2 race I have come to realise that F1 needs one specific thing. Thing is, in the GP2 race everyone made their pitstop on lap 1/2 behind the saftey car. This meant 41 laps on the same set of tyres. These tyres degraded pretty heavily towards the end of the race. With lots of power and little grip it was a pleasant sight indeed; it was just like the old days with the back stepping out! Less grip also meant that the drivers had to rely more on skill. So either make current F1 cars have much less grip, or make them run on used tires! No TC in either case

[Red]

I wasn't talking about manual gearbox. I was talking about H-box.

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

Chassis

• No aerodynamic device may create downforce
• A flat-trapped bottom without any sort of diffuser
• No minimum weight
• 215 cm wide

If you want no downforce, go and watch formula ford. Many road cars have downforce now, it's crazy and in fact stupid to have ugly cars by banning wings.

And H-Boxes are stupid, it amazes me why they are still put in road cars.

[ss_collins]

winglets and other small aero aids banned, only wing profiles are allowed in the front wing (2 elements only) and rear (3 upper - 1 lower).

Diffuser volume limited too - strakes limited to 2.

cars any width up to 2100mm

tyres - slicks 5 compounds available from super soft Q tyres to super hard.

customer cars not able to score constructors points or get prize money. Privateer single or two car teams allowed (minimum 3 race participation all in one region).

engines 2.4 litre any configuration but breathing through a restrictor, no turbos, KERS permitted. 100% bio fuel.

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

If you want no downforce, go and watch formula ford. Many road cars have downforce now, it's crazy and in fact stupid to have ugly cars by banning wings.

And H-Boxes are stupid, it amazes me why they are still put in road cars.

Downforce is evil, it should be erradicated for the most part, its been to the detriment of racing as a whole, who cares about road cars?

Why are H boxes stupid on road cars? So you can have one of those really unreliable auto boxes?

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

And H-Boxes are stupid, it amazes me why they are still put in road cars.

BMW is still using it in their racing cars.

[Sev]

Bloody hell, why do people who dislike the idea of downforce watch Formula 1?

Without downforce, the cars would be slow and require vastly less setting up, removing a large amount of the skill in F1. Basically, you'd be left with something akin to Formula Ford or Karts. Yes, there would be overtaking, but then again, if that's your prime concern, why watch F1 in the first place?

Seriously. Why do you watch F1?