[Tech Issue] Closed cockpits- Closer to reality then we might think?

[Chatters]

Just unearthed this recent video of the FIA conducting crash tests on two different strength canopies.



Not quite sure what to think! All the drivers know that when they step into the car there is a chance they might not be stepping out alive, is this just a belated knee-jerk reaction to the accidents of Henry Surtees and Felipe Massa? I'd be interested in seeing what sort of damage a suspension spring could do to one of those canopies...

[wnut]

"All the drivers know that when they step into the car there is a chance they might not be stepping out alive,"

I find the above statement offensive. Just because a driver accepts a risk in order to do something he loves, does not mean that everyone should not continue trying to mitigate known risks.

The canopies would be a good idea!
We may still have Alan Stacey, Mike Spence, Helmut Koeinnig, Tom Pryce, Ayrton Senna, Henry Surtees and probably would have prevented Massa's injury.
Heading into an accident with your head exposed, when a car rides up over yours or an object comes toward you on a race track does not seem very bright. (Besides adds more road car relevance )

[Retired]

There is one of those canopies fitted to "my" aircraft and very strong it is too. Mind you we have to lift it off with a crane so there may be a weight issue there . Having said that mine is the two seat version so the guy in the back could play with all the dials and knobs while the bloke up front could concentrate on hitting his braking points and apexes -sorted!

[ECW Dan Selby]

I really don't know what to make of this.

I understand why they'd want them, but does this mean all single seaters would have these fitted as standard?

Selby

[duke_toaster]

I guess they would percolate down. My only concern with these would be speed of getting out of the car, which I feel sure the fly boys have already got sorted out.

Things that can hit the driver on the head are something that need to be avoided, that is probably the most dangerous thing in a modern single seater (well, toss-up between that and wheel over wheel crashes).

Off topic comment alert I have to type this or my brain will explode! As a sidepoint, not only single seaters have this problem, I remember in a BTCC support race (I think it was SEATs or Clios) where one of the tyres they stick on the corners bouncing in to a touring car windscreen, with the tyre winding up making a massive tyre-sized hole. Now if that happened in a single seater race, it could be curtains. Perhaps in some cases race track furniture could actually be a bit more thought out e.g. not having heavy stuff on the inside of corners, just stick polystyrene advert hoardings there or something equally breaky-uppy in case it gets hit. Thanks for reading, you've been a wonderful audience. Don't forget to try the veal and tip your waitress. We now return you to the topic

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by wnut

"All the drivers know that when they step into the car there is a chance they might not be stepping out alive,"

I find the above statement offensive. Just because a driver accepts a risk in order to do something he loves, does not mean that everyone should not continue trying to mitigate known risks.

The canopies would be a good idea!
We may still have Alan Stacey, Mike Spence, Helmut Koeinnig, Tom Pryce, Ayrton Senna, Henry Surtees and probably would have prevented Massa's injury.
Heading into an accident with your head exposed, when a car rides up over yours or an object comes toward you on a race track does not seem very bright. (Besides adds more road car relevance )

Agree totally.

The purists may feel that it no longer looks like a single seater rather more like a sports prototype. But surely that's a very small price to pay. Let's get real here. None of us watch motor racing to see people decapitated and if this saves even one driver's life, it's a very good idea indeed.

[ECW Dan Selby]

I'm not totally against it by any stretch of the imagination. It's just a huge change, isn't it?

I guess it's the next in the cycle of no helmets, to small helmets, to full sized helmets, now to this.

It perhaps offers a chance for other series (Superleague etc) to not follow suit (for better or for worse...).

Selby

[safc_fan89]

Why not just stop motorsport altogether? Then there'll be no risk at all.

I don't think it is necessary. Firstly, in my opinion it would look ridiculous and secondly, there will presumably be an issue with vacating the car within X seconds. Thirdly...just no. What next, wrapping the cars in cotton wool?

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by safc_fan89

Why not just stop motorsport altogether? Then there'll be no risk at all.

I don't think it is necessary. Firstly, in my opinion it would look ridiculous and secondly, there will presumably be an issue with vacating the car within X seconds. Thirdly...just no. What next, wrapping the cars in cotton wool?

I can't believe they put canopies on jet planes either - bunch of pansies. Open face helmet should be more than adequate.

[ECW Dan Selby]

I think the point here is that drivers understand the situation when they sign up. They know and love motor racing the way it is, or they wouldn't have joined it in the first place.

That's not to say technology and safety should come to a stand still, but it's a very tricky line to walk, isn't it?

Selby

[Pingguest]

Should Formula 1 abandon its character as open-cockpit series, it should then also abandon its open-wheel character. Such would improve safety and fits Formula 1's pursuit for reduced fuel consumption and a green(er) image.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

My only concern with these would be speed of getting out of the car, which I feel sure the fly boys have already got sorted out.

ejector seats! F1 needs ejector seats immediately!

seriously though it is a fine line. obviously you must try to increase safety and the powers that be will move it ever closer to that line where it ceases to be a sport and turns into something that no longer reflects why we watch it and why drivers choose to compete in it.

sadly where that line is i wont know until they cross it and i stop watching and caring but i have to wonder does this road just move us closer towards an era where 20 odd 'drivers' sit in the safety of their simulators and remotely control the cars on track?

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by davyboy

None of us watch motor racing to see people decapitated

Wow... it seems I was wrong here. I'm quite shocked.

[Spritle]

Do Moto GP forums have these types of discussions or do they just get on with it?

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by Spritle

Do Moto GP forums have these types of discussions or do they just get on with it?

I think bikers are more discriminating, they probably don't let the jobsworths and H&S types in

[wnut]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Wow... it seems I was wrong here. I'm quite shocked.

Ugly, distressing, and apparently totally accurate obsevation!

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Chatters

Just unearthed this recent video of the FIA conducting crash tests on two different strength canopies.



Not quite sure what to think! All the drivers know that when they step into the car there is a chance they might not be stepping out alive, is this just a belated knee-jerk reaction to the accidents of Henry Surtees and Felipe Massa? I'd be interested in seeing what sort of damage a suspension spring could do to one of those canopies...

Fantastic idea, let's do it..

[grantp]

So, do they then require aircon in the cockpit or would that be covered by some sort of g-suit implementation in a package deal?

But then if one was going to all that trouble why not go the whole way and take the driver out of the car altogether? Let's face it right now they are little more than the top of decorated helmets as far as the spectators are concerned so why not just paint the helmet onto the car and let the drivers control it rom somewhere safe?

Or just run the things controlled by some sort of FIA approved Simulated Driver software. Maybe even crowd source the inputs from the trackside to give spectators a sense of real involvement.

[Razor]

But hang on a sec, F1 have been seriously thinking about using closed canopies for decades. This isn't really a brand new issue.

[nickyf1]

I'm pretty sure there was a car in the 60's with a perspex canopy and a wooden chassis?

I think its great that the FIA are testing these kinds of things, and they probably test a lot of other things too that we don't really see.

I wouldn't mind the canopy. The WSC cars (near the time of the WSC's death) had canopies that could be flipped open and had lots of F1 tech involved.

[JeremySmith]

I think the idea is a good one, however getting the driver out of the car in case of an emergency would prove to be very time consuming, the canopy would have to be lifted somehow? Then you have the problem with the release mechanism..

So I am not sure it is a very practical solution at the end of the day..

[dsg]

Originally Posted by Spritle

Do Moto GP forums have these types of discussions or do they just get on with it?

Do any of them have enough fingers remaining or unbroken to type?

[Tal Aras]

The big problem is getting at a driver in the car when it's upside down. Either the car will need a door or every marshals post will need cutting gear and I can't see the teams being too keen on getting the cars back in small bits.

[luke g28]

I cant imagine its hard to make a quick release canopy. Hell if a jet fighter can do it at 700 knots (mph?) im sure with the seemingly unlimited resources of F1 they can come up with something.

[Hubble]

Originally Posted by luke g28

I cant imagine its hard to make a quick release canopy. Hell if a jet fighter can do it at 700 knots (mph?) im sure with the seemingly unlimited resources of F1 they can come up with something.

Making a quick release canopy isn't the problem.....of course the teams can do it....but there are other issues, as being raised here.

I'm sure the FIA would want a universal quick release method so that rescue personnel do not need to learn the intricacies of each teams system....

A fighter pilot will (generally) be right way up, with a clear path ahead to eject into, not upside down wedged against a barrier...

Only a handful of aircrew have ejected at speeds of 700kts or higher - usually ejection takes place at much lower speeds when the crew have determined that the aircraft is unlikely to be recoverable from it's abnormal or unplanned flight path/trim, and impact with the ground or other object is inevitable...