Where have all the numbers gone?

[woodbine]

I've just been looking at the pics of the new BAR and noticed that there are no numbers on the sides of the car at all. Last year they used to have (small) numbers on the rear wing endplates but even these seem to have gone now.

Is there a new rule saying that they don't need these numbers or just a case trying to cram more sponsorship onto the cars?

[The Moon Monkey]

i remember posting a thread on this time last year. Infact numbers were not on the rear wing endplates either last season - Toyota and Minardi did have them at the start of 2002 but disappeared soon after.

It is a bit naff really! The FIA should demand that numbers return to the rear wing endplates!!!

[woodbine]

Personally I think they should be about 30cm high and on the sidepods or airbox

[DNQ]

Well maybe thats tradition woodbine, but if they did that, there goes five million dollars of sponsorship...

[Bononi]

I don't think they dissapeared at all, and I'm pretty sure you'll see the number 1 in a Ferrari this season.

[Jellybabe]

Originally posted by woodbine
Is there a new rule saying that they don't need these numbers or just a case trying to cram more sponsorship onto the cars?

If it was that then there would be a sponsor where there used to be a number - there isn't. I have to say I like the new livery - very clean with only two apparent sponsors and very uncluttered, unlike some cars which really do just look like moving billboards rather than racing cars will a couple of logos on them...

[Glen]

Bearing in mind that the numbers relate to where they finished the year previous - if I were BAR I think I'd rather keep quiet about the numbers!

[jase]

Woodbine, teams don't normally put numbers on for launches or early testing.

But I do agree, as an official, that the numbers should be in the same place and the same size and LEGIBLE from the greatest distance a trackside observer is to see them (does this make sence?)

[Adam43]

I'm pretty sure that there still exists a minimum requirement for number sizes.

It's quite interesting that they don't make more of them. Maybe it is because they keep changing. In the old days teams (more or less) stuck to their own numbers unless hey won the championship. Hmmmm a 27 Ferrari!

In NASCAR (and a lot of racing in USA) the numbers are still important and drivers/team retain the same ones year to year. Have you seen the size of the numbers on a NASCAR?!

And I keep mine from year to year too!

[Jellybabe]

The 005 does have numbers on - on the nose. There are also regs to say how big the numbers should be and where they should be positioned. I haven't read this year's regs yet, but certainly there also used to be a reg saying what colour the numbers had to be so they could be seen more easily.

[Adam43]

Originally posted by jasongore
...LEGIBLE from the greatest distance a trackside observer is to see them...

they'd have to be massive for most viewing places at Silverstone!

[woodbine]

In the old days teams (more or less) stuck to their own numbers unless hey won the championship. Hmmmm a 27 Ferrari!

Weren't they going to bring that back last year but Sauber compalined?

[Russfeld]

As long as you have the # on the nose, does it matter otherwise? You identify the cars by paint and the drivers by helmet

[Red]

There are numbers, on the nose. Previously (2001 year included) each car had to have numbers clearly visible (that is legible on a 25 cm TV) from the front and from both sides. Now they only have to put them 'on front'.

[Stephen Green]

This is a pain in the rear for marshals who are expected to see which cars are which when accidents happen. As an Observer I am expected to make full written reports to the Clerk of the Course of ALL accidents that happen in my sector. If there are no visible numbers on the car, how am I supposed to know which cars are involved? Before you say drivers helmets, if the car has the rear end facing you it's almost impossible to see the drivers helmet. Likewise, if it's an F1 the speeds at which they pass you often make it difficult or impossible to see which driver it was.

I think they should stick with the numbers on the nose and one on each side of the car, preferrably on the rear wing end plates. The numbers should also be inside a white circle so that they stand out and make themselves easily visible to marshals.

[Russfeld]

Well given the speeds, can you really make out a numbre more than a helmte? The Ferrari #s for instance are practically invisible with a skinny black on a red backround

[Stephen Green]

That's why I said about them being in a white circle (or square) as they are on all other race series. With numbers you can at least see most of them as the car spins, unlike seeing a drivers helmet. Also, why should we be expected to know the design of each drivers helmet when a number would be so much easier to see?

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Stephen Green
That's why I said about them being in a white circle

Maybe Ferrari could incorporate the numbers inside the Vodafone logo on the rear end plates

[Russfeld]

I dont like the idea of numbers taking that prominent a position, its valuable ad space. In fact one o things I really like about F1 is you arent rquired to wear any silly series logo.

[woodbine]

I dont like the idea of numbers taking that prominent a position, its valuable ad space. In fact one o things I really like about F1 is you arent rquired to wear any silly series logo

I'd prefer to see a number rather than have the situation where they show a broken-down car and have to guess who it is.

Maybe if we did take some of the ad space away then it would convince the owners to cut costs? Anyone for getting rid of those ugly air boxes?

[Red]

Originally posted by woodbine
Maybe if we did take some of the ad space away then it would convince the owners to cut costs?

They ARE wiling to cut costs, but until a realistic method is found, allow them to get every single penny they can.

Anyway, Stephen's point is very correct; however I kinda like them more the way they're now, rather than having a big black number on a big white circle. (which by the way, is not visible and you don't have enough time to see it anyway, unless the car is stationary)

Anyone for getting rid of those ugly air boxes?

That's debateable. You see, a Formula 1 car (any Formula 1 car) is ugly... no, not ugly, it's hideous by any standard. For a profane. However, we do love them and they ARE the most beautiful things created by man, because we know that every single bolt has its functionality. Let's imagine that a manufacturer could imagine a way to cool that engines without those air intakes... which is not at all stupid since they are not exactly the best aerodynamic parts of the car. I can't imagine the shock and horror in F1 world. Remember when Tyrell, for example, imagined those 'ugly' high noses? Can you picture, now, a car with front wings like in late 80's?

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Red
That's debateable. You see, a Formula 1 car (any Formula 1 car) is ugly... no, not ugly, it's hideous by any standard.

Thats debateable ,I personally don't think that the F1 cars of today are ugly or hideous, especially in comparison to some of the 70's cars.

[Red]

Of course not Mr V, neither do I. But, (since you're not a prophane ) you, like myself, are completely unable to judge it from a objective point of view. You DO like them. Actually this discussion I had with a friend of mine, an architect.. designer.. anyway... but, speaking from an 'artistic' point of view she was completely unable to understand my admiration for those... shapes... that don't even look like a car, other than having 4 wheels..

[Jordi]

I've gotten to memorize the helmets list each year since I was 8 or 9... it's much easier.

And BAR's double scheme (Lucky for JV, 555 for Zonta) would have been real easy to spot!

[Jellybabe]

That 555 car was beautiful