Group A BMW M3 E30 - General info and history

[GROUPA]

As the title I remember Longhurst attempting to homologate a E36 BMW 2 door with BMW E30 running gear. Does anyone have a picture of the this ex BTCC car.

What happended to this car ?

Looking at you GTRMagic oracle of little known cars

[pete60]

Don't know about the Longhurst thing but Paul Pickett ran a 2 door ex BTCC 318 in the early days of Super Touring.

[William Dale Jr]

Yep, this occurred towards the end of 1992. The car in question actually competed in the 1992 Australian Grand Prix touring car support races. There was a bit of controversy over it because Dick Johnson and Glenn Seton were sent to the back of the grid for running a 'non-homologated' aero kit, and yet the E36 was not homologated to run the E30 M3 engine.

The photo attached is from one of the early editions of Motor Racing Australia. The car looks like it was one of the Listerine Vic Lee Motorsport cars:


As to its whereabouts after the 1992 AGP, I have no ideas. Maybe contact Morris, Gardner or Longhurst?

[racer69]

Wasn't this car the one that ended up with Pickett (perhaps passing through John Henderson's hands?)

A real shame this car wasn't allowed to run in 1993 (was the reason ever fully explained?)

[KA]

Originally Posted by William Dale Jr

Yep, this occurred towards the end of 1992. The car in question actually competed in the 1992 Australian Grand Prix touring car support races. There was a bit of controversy over it because Dick Johnson and Glenn Seton were sent to the back of the grid for running a 'non-homologated' aero kit, and yet the E36 was not homologated to run the E30 M3 engine.

The photo attached is from one of the early editions of Motor Racing Australia. The car looks like it was one of the Listerine Vic Lee Motorsport cars:


As to its whereabouts after the 1992 AGP, I have no ideas. Maybe contact Morris, Gardner or Longhurst?

Definitely one of the Vic Lee cars- still in the basic VLR/Shell/Listerine colours. The Prodrive cars were white, and from memory went to Matt Neal and Team Dynamics, one late in the 92 season, and the others for 93.
There were 3 VLR cars- did just the one go to Australia, they didn't appear again in the BTCC as I remember...?

[racer69]

Originally Posted by KA

Definitely one of the Vic Lee cars- still in the basic VLR/Shell/Listerine colours. The Prodrive cars were white, and from memory went to Matt Neal and Team Dynamics, one late in the 92 season, and the others for 93.
There were 3 VLR cars- did just the one go to Australia, they didn't appear again in the BTCC as I remember...?

I was of the impression that Vic Lee Motorsport morphed into Team Dynamics for the 1993 season (after Vic was sentenced to prison in late-92).

Steve Neal & Ray Bellm kept the team going in late 1992, and i assumed as they were/are Team Dynamics from 1993, that the VLM cars would have stayed (then again, didn't they run 3 cars at some point in 1993, if one went to Australia, they'd have had to have sourced another 3rd car from somewhere)

[KA]

Originally Posted by racer69

I was of the impression that Vic Lee Motorsport morphed into Team Dynamics for the 1993 season (after Vic was sentenced to prison in late-92).

Steve Neal & Ray Bellm kept the team going in late 1992, and i assumed as they were/are Team Dynamics from 1993, that the VLM cars would have stayed (then again, didn't they run 3 cars at some point in 1993, if one went to Australia, they'd have had to have sourced another 3rd car from somewhere)

That's the odd thing about it...

According to the Touring Car Year Yearbooks for 92/3, that's exactly what happened- Neal and Bellm reached an agreement to keep the team in operation until the end of 92, and then bought the assets to set up Team Dynamics for 93, taking on personnel from the defunct Euroracing sports car team. The strange thing is, the book clearly describes the cars as being ex-Prodrive, not ex-VLM.... Bearing in mind, as you said, they ran 3 cars for a fair part of 93, with one car going to Longhurst in Australia would have to have sourced an additional car.

In fact, they already had one, the ex-Prodrive Coupe (the 3rd car run for Colin McRae at Knockhill I think) that Matt Neal had used at the last 1992 round, replacing his black E30 M3.

The only thing I can think of is that maybe the deal on the Longhurst car had already been done when Neal & Bellm took over, and with a Prodrive car already within the team, for some reason it made sense to buy the remaining Prodrive cars rather than running a mixture of the two.

There were apparently some technical differences between the two versions, although the main ones (apparently each team ran their own engine development programmes and used different gearboxes- VLR using Hollinger while Prodrive used Hewlands) should have been easy enough to overcome.....

[mtpanorama]

Originally Posted by racer69

Wasn't this car the one that ended up with Pickett (perhaps passing through John Henderson's hands?)

A real shame this car wasn't allowed to run in 1993 (was the reason ever fully explained?)

Pickett's car was from memory one of ???? Pinkney's cars. They were painted bright pink in the UK and whenever we got the highlights on CH9 WWOS you would no doubt see the car spinning off into the gravel trap.

[KA]

Originally Posted by mtpanorama

Pickett's car was from memory one of ???? Pinkney's cars. They were painted bright pink in the UK and whenever we got the highlights on CH9 WWOS you would no doubt see the car spinning off into the gravel trap.

Dave Pinkney- the car was white & pink.

http://www.stillphotography.co.uk/ga...nds_w.jpg.html


Dave's cars usually have pink somewhere in the paintscheme- last year's BTCC Honda was black & pink...

http://www.btccinfo.co.uk/drivers/pinkney.html

[ian beckett]

What a wonderful surprise this thread is!!I knew that at the end of '92 The Benson and Hedges/Frank Gardner team were hoping to race the new Coupe(E36) fitted with the 2.5 M3 Evolution engine but gave up because of the combinations lack of homologation and continued with the trusty M3 instead.They eventually changed to the 318is for '94 onwards.I did not realise however that such a combination actually raced...what position did it finish in? This is my understanding of the history of the British 318i's.....Ray Bellm took over the Vic Lee team of three cars on Lee's imprisonment and at the end of '92 also purchased the three cars of Prodrive.One,the car McRae had raced at Knockhill was acquired for Matt Neal.Two were sold to Oreca in France.For '93 a new team(Dynamics) was set up and ran three cars,one was the ex-VLM/Harvey car,one was the ex-McRae,Prodrive/Neal car and the third was an ex-Prodrive car brought back from Oreca/France before the start of the season.Oreca tested their two cars but they were never raced by them because the French regulations demanded that 4 door shells were used.Their race cars were newly built by them in France.This leaves two cars unaccounted for,the car Bellm himself raced in '92 plus that raced for VLM by Steve Soper.One of these two cars must therefore be that used by Paul Morris in the '92 Australian GP support race at Adelaide.Does anyone know what became of it? What about the other ''missing'' VLM car,anyone know? Does anyone have other photos of the 'M3/Coupe' which we started with?To complete the story,Team Dynamics built a brand new 4 door car midway through '93.Bellm sold his share of Team Dynamics midway through the season to Matt Neals dad Steve.At the seasons end The car Bellm had raced in '93 was sold to Geof Steel and eventually to Paul Pickett.A second Dynamics car was sold to Hamish Irvine and eventually to Sweden.Matt Neals car was sold to Team Mobitech in Sweden and finally the new 4 d or car was sold to Peggen Andersson in Sweden.I hope this story can have some of the missin detail filled in.Ian.

[ian beckett]

Pinkneys '93 car shown in KA's reference was the one raced by Kris Nissen for Prodrive in the'92 BTCC and was for sale for £50,000 at the end of the season.I have no idea where that one went to next but the fact that it was a 2 door coupe meant its options were limited due to homologation issues. Ian.

[Nivola]

this car was bloody quick that all I can remember!

Bit like the psyco ones BH had at surfers (Ithink?) for the sports sedan event.

[KA]

Originally Posted by ian beckett

What a wonderful surprise this thread is!!I knew that at the end of '92 The Benson and Hedges/Frank Gardner team were hoping to race the new Coupe(E36) fitted with the 2.5 M3 Evolution engine but gave up because of the combinations lack of homologation and continued with the trusty M3 instead.They eventually changed to the 318is for '94 onwards.I did not realise however that such a combination actually raced...what position did it finish in? This is my understanding of the history of the British 318i's.....Ray Bellm took over the Vic Lee team of three cars on Lee's imprisonment and at the end of '92 also purchased the three cars of Prodrive.One,the car McRae had raced at Knockhill was acquired for Matt Neal.Two were sold to Oreca in France.For '93 a new team(Dynamics) was set up and ran three cars,one was the ex-VLM/Harvey car,one was the ex-McRae,Prodrive/Neal car and the third was an ex-Prodrive car brought back from Oreca/France before the start of the season.Oreca tested their two cars but they were never raced by them because the French regulations demanded that 4 door shells were used.Their race cars were newly built by them in France.This leaves two cars unaccounted for,the car Bellm himself raced in '92 plus that raced for VLM by Steve Soper.One of these two cars must therefore be that used by Paul Morris in the '92 Australian GP support race at Adelaide.Does anyone know what became of it? What about the other ''missing'' VLM car,anyone know? Does anyone have other photos of the 'M3/Coupe' which we started with?To complete the story,Team Dynamics built a brand new 4 door car midway through '93.Bellm sold his share of Team Dynamics midway through the season to Matt Neals dad Steve.At the seasons end The car Bellm had raced in '93 was sold to Geof Steel and eventually to Paul Pickett.A second Dynamics car was sold to Hamish Irvine and eventually to Sweden.Matt Neals car was sold to Team Mobitech in Sweden and finally the new 4 d or car was sold to Peggen Andersson in Sweden.I hope this story can have some of the missin detail filled in.Ian.

Brilliant stuff Ian, you've answered a whole bunch of questions I was going to ask... I remembered 2 of the Dynamics cars going to Steel & Irvine and the 4-door going to Andersson in Sweden (think he ran it at the Donington World Cup the following year?), but I didn't know one of the Coupes went to Sweden, or the Prodrive cars going to ORECA...

[Tony C]

Paul Picketts car was I believe purchased from Steele, it was an ex VLM car converted to right hand drive for Steele. The rear window had Harveys name imprinted in it from the stickers. The car arrived in Australia with an xtrac 'box, only three of these gearboxes had been built, the other two going to Japan I believe.

[GROUPA]

Originally Posted by Nivola

this car was bloody quick that all I can remember!

Bit like the psyco ones BH had at surfers (Ithink?) for the sports sedan event.

I remember that, they took all the weight out of them also ran light fuel, which ran out too.

Pity we never saw the E30 M3 run full spec in Australia like they did in DTM Group A. I remember the Lakeside race where they won against the GTR, were a good chance @ Bathurst too if they stupid rev limiter from CAMS did not stuff up the engine management.

Thanks for the information guys, seems I have opended a can of worms

[Nivola]

Good to see i wasnt dreaming Group A!!!!!!!

Yes it always makes me smile when I remember Lakeside! Freddy would of been ****ed!

Always love the little beast!

[Adrian B]

A year or two ago I bought an s14 engine and Holinger 6 speed gearbox out of a e36 Listerine car ( Harvey's BTCC car I believe). Gearbox was stamped VLM. I think the car spent some time in Sweden, and possibly SEAsia.

[racer69]

So was there an official reason given by CAMS as to why BMW couldn't run the E36 model cars in Australia in 1993?

[Mark Webber]

no E36 was homlogated to grA that was the E30 domain E36 was the start of ST I think. cause all E36 we 320's using the M42 engine i think

[racer69]

EB Falcon's and VP Commodore's were not homologated under Group A for 1993. The main reason that BMW didn't run the car is obvious (look at the way they were treated by CAMS in 1993), it's just a real shame that the rules weren't written in a way for the new shape to compete and be competitive, especially as BMW supported the "V8s" more than Ford or Holden did in 1993.

[David Towe]

Originally Posted by Mark Webber

no E36 was homlogated to grA that was the E30 domain E36 was the start of ST I think. cause all E36 we 320's using the M42 engine i think

The early BMW Supertourers were badged 318s I thought, then changed to 320 by BMW as a marketing plan. The early 318s ran an S14 in 2 litre trim, (anyone want to buy a crank for these motors?) and some had "H" pattern gearboxes with a sequential adaptor fitted. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Falcadore]

The car that Longhurst drove at Adelaide was canned after that one meeting because it was essentially a fictional creation that failed to conform to any known Touring Car regulation.

A Super Touring car fitted with Group A mechanicals?

At one point the new Group 3A Falcadores were being considered at about 400/450 horsepower instead of 600+ that they became, it was hoped that Super Touring might be able to compete in a form of level playing field, hence the evolution of the 1993 race format which saw the two and five litre cars each getting a points heat with a merged final.

However those behind the technical evolution of the VP Commodore and EB Falcon quickly ensured that Super Touring would not be able to compete and V8Supercar evolved.

Nissan were gone, turbos were officially on the nose, but BMW were still looking for an opportunity or an angle and eventually the E30 M3 Group A cars received a grandfather clause for a single season but after Bathurst '92 M3 Motorsport (Cotter/Doulman) saw the way for small bores and tossed their 2.3 and 2.5 motors in favour of 2.0 litres and were ready for when Colin Bond announced his Caltex team and Toyota would link up and develop the Corolla fastback Seca into a touring car, creating in the end a fascinating show down and an extremely controversial result as Peter Doulman defeated John Smith to win the first Super Touring title in Australia.

The E36 "M3" may have been an attempt to put forward the value of a variation of Group 1 (DTM) to compete against Group 3a (V8Supercar) instead of Group 2 (Supertouring). Essentially the car was built out of wishful thinking.

[Alex E]

I can add a little bit of info. As Adrian B said the Harvey car went to Norway & won their touring car championship once or twice. It then went to Denmark & on to Malaysia. It returned to the UK a few years ago and is now heading off for a new life in New Zealand.
Alex

[Driver TBA]

I know its off topic. but did this B'n'H BM survive?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cwe7tFM3gc

[ian beckett]

Hello guys,time to put your brains to the test!! Having just watched the clip on Youtube from Wellington '91,at about 1minute 30 seconds'ish a black 635 with blue/white logos on the side tours past Longhurst's wreck.Who knows who the drivers were and where they came in the race? I don't but would love to know! Many thanks Ian.