2013 French HGV ECOTAX

[Mike Bell]

Apologies for posting this on Historic Racing today!

So what does anyone know about this? My research suggests that from July 20th 2013 all vehicles over 3.5 tonnes will be taxed on major roads throughout France not in private control and thus covered by Peage.

The method of collecting tax will be by a 'geolocation' device fitted to the inside of the windscreen and a pre-opened account with a provider such as Eurotoll to be debited with the costs as they occur.

If you haven't got a device and account you will be required to stop at an 'Ecomouv distribution point', pay a deposit for a device and purchase credit to cover your needs.

Overhead gantries and mobile patrols will be used to catch any vehicles not equipped with working device.

I had to look at the calendar to make sure it wasn't April 1st........

[Tim Falce]

It's probably for revenge on the UK's intention to start charging foreign hauliers to use Britain's roads. Is this for 3.5 tonnes MGW or gross train weight? Do you have a linky.

[Peter Mallett]

Does this apply to private vehicles with a GVW of 3.5 tonnes or is it strictly commercial vehicles? Likewise how does this square with the EU free movement of goods etc? I guess that if it applies to local as well as foreign vehicles, France will argue that it is not a MEQR.

[Mike Bell]

Sorry for delay, needed to get back to PC as links from ipad don't seem to work. Eurotoll website here Think it is HGV only but a large van and car transporter could be over the limit. There is a trial in Alsace region next April for over 12 tonners, then in July it rolls out nationally for 3.5 tonnes.

This all came about as for last 3 years have been asking SANEF UK when it will be possible to have an account in UK for a Telepeage Tag. They do them for cars and light vehicles but not trucks... They mentioned the TIS-PL tag will be needed in 2013 and gave me the link to Eurotoll. Looks like their device will work on autoroute as well.

Wonder if Mr McKay will know more?

[Colin McKay]

This is indeed an insidious plan to extract more revenue from motorists in France and in typical Gallic style seems to be somewhat short on available detail, cf this year's breathalyser law which has yet to be implemented due to "supply problems". We've had a large box full of the things for 6 months now, they'll be out of date before they get around to enforcing the rules.

As far as I can tell all goods vehicles over 3.5 tonnes gross weight are affected. Mike, whether the French consider your rig a motorhome or a goods vehicle I wouldn't like to say, but I guess they'll go by whatever is on the V5. Likewise, if you tow with a van you might find yourself considered a goods vehicle.

The 12 cent/km average charge is roughly the same as the motorway tolls, so expect to see much heavier use of the autoroutes in future. At the moment most French hauliers (and lots of others) prefer to stay on the RN's but once this is introduced they might as well use the motorway. Those empty autoroutes could soon be a thing of the past.

We will be using the AS24 transponder to log our mileage, we have used them for tolls for years. If they'll let you open an account it would be better than faffing around looking for a box every time you go to France. Their diesel is generally cheap too.

All the bad news is here:

http://www.as24.com/AS24/as24-Websit...9?OpenDocument

[Mike Bell]

Thanks, Colin. Hope you are getting over the flu bug.

Looking at the map linked from AS24s website, one thing is clear- it will not be possible to get to an autoroute from the usual ferry ports without using a road subjected to the Ecotax regulations!

So if this all gets off the ground by July 20th any race car transport from 7.5 tonner upwards will definitely have to comply and maybe large vans like Sprinters towing Dastle boxes also. Running a rig on private UK RFL may exempt it from requirement, but then if you are stopped, having to go through the hassle of arguing your case comes into the equation!

I will contact both AS24 and Eurotoll to see if an account can be opened.

[midgetman]

As this is mostly administered electronically, presumably if your vehicle is registered as a motor home it wont show up on the database as an HGV and will be exempt? A friend of mine has a 7.5 tonner in such trim, but it may be worth preparing his defence in French to be prepared for the inevitable conversation with a gendarme.

So a rush of Spa-bound racers going into Zeebrugge then!

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by midgetman

As this is mostly administered electronically, presumably if your vehicle is registered as a motor home it wont show up on the database as an HGV and will be exempt? A friend of mine has a 7.5 tonner in such trim, but it may be worth preparing his defence in French to be prepared for the inevitable conversation with a gendarme.

So a rush of Spa-bound racers going into Zeebrugge then!

That is first thought- avoid France if possible!

I guess for a trip crossing France to Spain ot Italy it isn't going to make a huge difference as majority of route will be on privately run Autoroute. It is the hassle of having to get the device, open an account etc or stop on arrival in France, fill in forms, pay deposit and buy credit........ And device isn't self powered- it has to run off truck electrics......

[GORDON STREETER]

Another nail in the weekend warriors coffin then, they're obviously in cahoots with the FIA !!

[zefarelly]

The Euro LAmbretta run is in Provence next summer, their biking laws are ridiculous as well. seems the only way to get round France 'legally' these days is pilled up to the eyeballs on a pushbike!

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

The Euro LAmbretta run is in Provence next summer, their biking laws are ridiculous as well. seems the only way to get round France 'legally' these days is pilled up to the eyeballs on a pushbike!

Not quite true Zef, the Frenchies send in the Riot Police if they think a cycling team has drugs. Loads of film of hotels being raided and team buses searched.

[DaveGT6]

So if I have understood this correctly, a motorhome towing a car trailer would be exempt?

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

Another nail in the weekend warriors coffin then, they're obviously in cahoots with the FIA !!

Exactly! And in which country is the FIA based?

It's about time all foreign motorists and trucks were charged for the use of our roads. Why the hell our politicians of both colours haven't done this a long time ago beats me.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by DaveGT6

So if I have understood this correctly, a motorhome towing a car trailer would be exempt?

That is how I read it, Dave. Mind you, the Motorhome (that is normally towing a yank tank) you associate with should bloody well be charged!

Peter, tolls for foreign trucks to use roads in UK are supposed to be on the way! In Switzerland, rather than the vignette for cars, all visiting goods vehicles have to pay a tax based on weight x emissions class x mileage. I calculated nearly 500 Euros for 576km.....

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

Another nail in the weekend warriors coffin then, they're obviously in cahoots with the FIA !!

Well not really Gordon, only the WW using a big van. The Corinthian driver, running out of the back of the family's estate car, will be exempt. Actually, the true Corinthian will be driving the racer to the circuit and will notice the decrease in traffic on the Routes Nationale so it will be an advantage

By my reading the web sites all talk about "weight", so it's nothing to do with GVW, MAM, GTW or any of the acronyms we so adore here in the UK - you weigh over 3500kg, you pay! There's a delightful simplicity there that the British would do well to copy...no need for an army of administrators or QUANGOs with that one

[Moosehead]

Originally Posted by DaveGT6

So if I have understood this correctly, a motorhome towing a car trailer would be exempt?

I hope so too, what is Jon's taxed as though? Pretty sure mine is Private LGV but will have to check, so that may cause a problem!

[grantp]

Originally Posted by midgetman

By my reading the web sites all talk about "weight", so it's nothing to do with GVW, MAM, GTW or any of the acronyms we so adore here in the UK - you weigh over 3500kg, you pay! There's a delightful simplicity there that the British would do well to copy...no need for an army of administrators or QUANGOs with that one

Perhaps the easiest way for UK to approach this requirement would be for all trucks using UK roads to have to pay an annual Road Tax fee just as UK registered vehicles do. At least it would be working within one management system. (Although I would bet that the IT systems couldn't cope with it.)

Later we could do the same for cars.

It will have to be addressed at some point anyway when Scotland goes its own way.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by midgetman

By my reading the web sites all talk about "weight", so it's nothing to do with GVW, MAM, GTW or any of the acronyms we so adore here in the UK - you weigh over 3500kg, you pay!

My take it is that is only vehicles designed to carry goods. Regarding weight, they will be using the plated weight of the vehicle for calculations, not how much it weighs at the time. That is why HGVs will need to make sure they have 'le barre rouge' (type approval cert) and registration document with them if they are not pre-registered. All great fun......

[Tim Falce]

This is like going back to the 70s when we needed permits to travel throughout Europe, the only good thing then was we could get them printed ourselves and combined with 40 ciggys we were fine

[GORDON STREETER]

It's going to be a bit of a minefield though, I used to use a Tranny Van without windows in the back years ago and it cost X amount to get through the Dartford tunnel, but when I fitted windows it was cheaper !

[terence]

Does this only apply to English registered vehicles? Yet another bonus of German life.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by terence bower

Does this only apply to English registered vehicles? Yet another bonus of German life.

I think even what you would like to call your Glorious Mutterland is not exempt Terry.

[terence]

[GORDON STREETER]

Hmm perhaps I could use my Spanish plates
Whatever it's not going to be cheaper !!!

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by terence bower

Does this only apply to English registered vehicles?

The trial that starts in April is in the Alsace region- specifically to target trucks coming in from Germany.