tire temp sensors? tire development?

[schitarella]

hi can anyone explain the technology and options for us to get live temperature readings from a race cars tires?

Can sensors read different parts of the tire (eg, inside surface, middle surface, outside surface areas, inner tempreture, sidewall? etc). What are the other important factors relating to tire development we should be looking at?

Anyone know any certain products they'd recommend (or stay away from) and the approx costs?

Thanks

[RPD Motorsport]

The most normal way would be to use several IR sensors per tyre. You need to make brackets up to hold at least 3 sensors per tyre (inner, mid, outter...) at a distance of between 6 and 12".

They are wired sensors that need one nomal logger channel each. So you are going to need at least 12 free chanels, and then also at least RPM and a wheel speed to let you make sense of where on the track all of the data is.

The most cost effective logger we found for that is an AIM Evo3 Pro, which has 12 channels + RPM and speed and GPS. If you use an Evo 4 or most PI systems you also need expansion packs to get the channels you need.

In essance the tyre temp package would need to be a completely stand alone logger package. The sensors cost in the regon of £180 each, so with assosiated wiring the cost is about £600/wheel or £2400 for the car. The logger will then be about £1200, so the total setup is about £3600.

There is only any point doing all 4 wheels, as the whole point of it is to be precise, and you need all 4 tyres on the same corner of the same lap.
It is as much a car dynamics tool as tyre development. Its biggest merrets would be to let you make the correct changes, i.e. call between static camber, castor or KPI changes.

At the end of the day everything you do on a race car comes down to the tyres. If the dynamics are perfect but your not getting the tyres to work then its a bit pointless... Hope this helps!

[GORDON STREETER]

Just noticed this in Maplins. I've no idea how good it is but it could be useful for race applications if its consistent.
I do know it shows all 4 tyre pressures on the screen, it also states it "monitors" the tyre temperature but as I say I haven't seen it !
http://www.maplin.co.uk/wireless-tyr...mpaign=11P07-3

[schitarella]

Thank-you very much RPD for your insite it's very helpful. Also thankyou for the link Gordon will look into this one but i'm guessing it's for street use?

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by schitarella

Also thankyou for the link Gordon will look into this one but I'm guessing it's for street use?

I quite agree, it's just that I happened to see this on their site and obviously it's a bit "cheap n cheerful" but if it's consistent in it's readings it could help.
Also it only gives one reading of the air temperature and not three across the tyre.

[RPD Motorsport]

Agreed. It will give the average temp, and only in low resolution. For example in Formula Renault we may have average air temp of 80 degC, and a surface temp of between 65 and 90 if mesured in the pitlane, but on track at an apex you can see 140 degc across the entire width which is what you should be intrested in.

IF, you are looking at tyre devlopment, aim for at least 15 Hz sampling rate or its as good as useless for showing the spikes your intrested in.

[MCoupe]

There is a product here in the States that seems precisely what we want, for a very reasonable price. It was much talked about in 2009, but it seems hard to find nowadays. I believe it is from the same group that produces the tire pressure sensors in the link above.

http://www.opti-grip.com/Opti-grip/Opti-Grip.html

Four sensors (why 4? We only want 3! edit: Unless some twit wants just one sensor per tire. . .), plus a box that converts the signals into voltages easily read by our data acquisition systems. You could go "on the cheap" and get one set to be moved between tires.

I sent them an email some months back, and never got a reply. There was one vendor that sold them (at twice the price of the core website. . .), but that now displays a "web site under construction" message. I am VERY interested in this unit!

Chris

[JohnD]

Maplin devices monitors "air pressure and temperature within the tyre" (My underline)
So it's not a tread sensor.
Sorry!

JOhn

[MacrosNZ]

Originally Posted by MCoupe

There is a product here in the States that seems precisely what we want, for a very reasonable price. It was much talked about in 2009, but it seems hard to find nowadays.

Wow that's a very good price. I've been using these sensors
http://www.solidstateracing.com/osc/...279ae6db2c65f4

for a few years which are good but far more expensive then the ones posted above.

[MCoupe]

OK, I sent another email and he's still alive, in business, and selling them. Given that, his web prices must still be good.

Hi Chris,

Yes I'm still selling all the systems. Let me know if you have any questions.


Thanks,

Kyle

There are technical specs on the site. There are some YouTube videos of the in-car temp display during some track driving. Beyond this I really don't know much about the system, and have no connection.

Surely such a setup would allow us to better set tire pressure and camber. For the fronts you'd need three across the face of the tire, mounted to an upright.

Chris

[Michael24]

Originally Posted by MCoupe

There is a product here in the States that seems precisely what we want, for a very reasonable price.

http://www.opti-grip.com/Opti-grip/Opti-Grip.html

I am VERY interested in this unit!

Chris

I've just ordered it through their PayPal option ..... Can't wait too!

Michael

[MCoupe]

Originally Posted by Michael24

I've just ordered it through their PayPal option ..... Can't wait too!

Michael

Please don't forget to give us a report! How you install it, and what you see on the data.

Chris

[Michael24]

Originally Posted by MCoupe

Please don't forget to give us a report! How you install it, and what you see on the data.

Chris

Will do!

Michael (running a Driftbox with Micro Input module)

[Michael24]

Just been told package is underway!!!

M

[Michael24]

Package has arrived!!! More soon

[MacrosNZ]

How are they? What's the refresh rate on those things?

[Michael24]

Report coming soon.

Refresh rate is based on rate of logger.
As for lag between actual temp change and registered temp change: I have no idea (yet). It's obviousy going to be part of the preparation/calibration sessions.

Would have reported back earlier, except for the fact that the entire family is now living in the kitchen, because some pratt ruined the floor (long story) and my computer has been boxed for the moment.

Michael

[Graham_T]

Does anyone know whether Opti-Grip firm is still trading? The web site seems to be corrupted and an email to sales got bounced back to me.
Alternatively, does anyone know where to buy this kit from?
Graham Templeman

[MCoupe]

Um. . .

Originally Posted by MCoupe

OK, I sent another email and he's still alive, in business, and selling them. Given that, his web prices must still be good.There are technical specs on the site. . . Chris

Originally Posted by Michael24

I've just ordered it through their PayPal option ..... Can't wait too!

Michael

So? Now, my firefox doesn't like his website, but in such (not uncommon) situations, I revert to internet explorer. He responds to emails, so maybe your email addy is from an ISP that has a bad reputation and is bounced.

Chris

[EfiOz]

You can use what they call a TPMS (Tyre Pressure Monitoring System) and most of the good ones also give you internal air temperature which isn't a bad comparitive to use. (http://www.compsystems.com.au/news/9...1.html)However, it won't give you the temperature spread over the tread surface.

For that you'll need something like these from Texense. they are infra red temperature sensors with a range of 0-200C and a linear 0-5V output. (http://www.compsystems.com.au/news/9.../22-infra.html) However, you really need 3 per tyre (inner/middle/outer) and this eats up analog inputs pretty quickly.

A very recent product from Texys combines four IR sensors with a CAN modules so you don't need to eat up all of your inputs.