CAMS and AASA Licences

RaceTime · 22 Jan 2004, 00:30 (Ref:846206)

It would appear that AASA are putting into place a system of licences based on CAMS - they acknowledge, like others, that CAMS competition licences do have merit.

So - to ensure compaitibility, medicals etc are based on the CAMS system - almost to the letter.

However - and here is the rub - CAMS are saying that any driver who present him or herself at a race meeting with only a AASA licence will not be eligible to race at that CAMS event - despite the same criteria being met for the issue of the AASA licence.

So - this raises the spectre of possibly the first contested legal battle coming forward will be over competition licences as this is so obviously a restraint issue.

The ACCC have already said that motor racing is a business, therefore it can be investigated by them (the ACCC) - will competition licences be the first battle line?

**GTRMagic** · 22 Jan 2004, 00:34 (Ref:846214)

Is the issue here one of whether an event is a national (therefore CAMS/AASA accreditation is ok) or an international one (which requires the ASN for Australian, which as at now is CAMS)??

I would have thought a national meeting should allow the licences to be interchangeable, which means every meeting up to and including Supercar ones (excluding Sandown & Bathurst enduros, and maybe the AGP) should allow a healthy interchange of licences.

The international races are quite separate, and a larger issue.

I somehow dont think these guys are going to play nice and work together....

sevi · 22 Jan 2004, 00:34 (Ref:846215)

This is one of the many questions I have been asking since first hearing of the AASA. My other ones are, if Cams do not recognise these licences, then you have competitors with 2 licences and one could be full of penalties, fines etc, and the other is clean.
Is the criteria for a AASA the same as Cams, do they enforce rules under the Cams rules, etc etc.

RaceTime · 22 Jan 2004, 00:41 (Ref:846228)

Sevi - to your last question - yes and yes - they are not trying to set up a different structure to CAMS - they agree that everything should be interchangeable for the sake of motor sport - to the point where ridiculous criteria are eliminated from the sport.

GTR - National. I don't believe they have discussed International at this stage (although I would guess that they have had it cross their minds).

spook · 22 Jan 2004, 00:43 (Ref:846230)

Glad you asked the question sevi, must buy you a drink sometime.

Under AASA, drivers who misbehave are fined points not dollars, and the only way to redeem those points is by being good over time, (you get points per race finished), or by working as an official. AASA think that drivers reputations/results are more important than their bank balance. The points are their competition points, not just licence points. If your points run too low - no racing.

Please ask as many questions as you feel you need sevi.

RaceTime · 22 Jan 2004, 00:51 (Ref:846243)

Which is probably why CAMS aren't too happy with AASA - no fines, no money, no money, no income, no income.....no CAMS.

Bugger - wonder if we could get every single driver at the next CAMS race meeting to behave - it would hurt like hell!

**GTRMagic** · 22 Jan 2004, 00:55 (Ref:846248)

I actually like the points idea. Its something I never understood as a difference between the TOCA ST series in the UK, where drivers got licences endorsed for indiscretions, and indeed were stood down for different meetings because of improper behaviour on a race circuit.

A positive step I should think.

If CAMS has to factor penalty money into its budget as a substantial income, then it really needs help in financial management!

sevi · 22 Jan 2004, 00:55 (Ref:846250)

and if they all behaved, I bet there would be some ineligbilites found on the cars.

FalconEL · 22 Jan 2004, 00:56 (Ref:846252)

Quote:

Originally posted by spook
Under AASA, drivers who misbehave are fined points not dollars, and the only way to redeem those points is by being good over time, (you get points per race finished), or by working as an official. AASA think that drivers reputations/results are more important than their bank balance. The points are their competition points, not just licence points. If your points run too low - no racing.

Spook, where is all this documented? Is there a set of sporting regulations in existence for AASA? All I have received thus far is a one page Q & A sheet from Queensland Raceway with a two line description of the above. I am all for alternatives, but some more information might be handy.

**GTRMagic** · 22 Jan 2004, 00:59 (Ref:846257)

I liken this scenario to the different road licences at the RTA for each state. There should be an interchange of licences were required, an understanding a driver can have one licence from one provider, not two, and that there is a database of overdue fees/points etc etc that may preclude attendance/participation at a race meeting.

How the licence upgrades are managed I am not exactly sure, and this remains one of the problems...

spook · 22 Jan 2004, 01:03 (Ref:846263)

AASA have been lacking in my opinion with the distribution of their written word. However, Rome wasn't built in a day and AASA is being rapidly driven to undertake roles in the sport it did not want.

AASA started out as an alternative source for insurance, and a vehicle to run the sort of events CAMS chose to ignore. Now it may have to become an ASN one day soon. That is a big ask.

But CAMS are giving some circuits no other option.

sevi · 22 Jan 2004, 01:04 (Ref:846266)

so if a new driver starts on AASA and I assume the endorsements and upgrades are the same as Cams,if he then changes over to a Cams licence he will start on 'P'"s again?

RaceTime · 22 Jan 2004, 01:07 (Ref:846270)

Depends on how it eventually works out.

Logic would say no - if AASA implement the same standards as CAMS or higher standards, then CAMS would have no legitimate reason to reject AASA licences.

However, and this is likely to be the scenario that will happen - CAMS will continue to say 'you don;t meet our standards' or they will continue to move goal posts (more probably the latter).

The onus is, IMHO, going to be on CAMS to show AASA standards are lower or don't meet the CAMS standards.

RaceTime · 22 Jan 2004, 01:07 (Ref:846273)

Oh - to add to the above - AASA have already stated that they are willing to accept CAMS licences without questions - so the problem, if indeed there is one, definately seems to be one way.

spook · 22 Jan 2004, 01:08 (Ref:846274)

That depends on CAMS, they will surely tell us.

At the moment CAMS does not accept that AASA has a right to exist, let alone issue licences.

krypto71 · 22 Jan 2004, 01:55 (Ref:846310)

Can anyone tell me what catagories/events one could enter and potentially win whilst holding only an AASA licence?

Just wondering how good you could prove to be whilst still not meeting CAMS standards....

275 GTB-4 · 22 Jan 2004, 02:01 (Ref:846320)

Quote:

Originally posted by RaceTime
Oh - to add to the above - AASA have already stated that they are willing to accept CAMS licences without questions - so the problem, if indeed there is one, definately seems to be one way.

So would the AASA be aware of a CAMS licenced Drivers past misdemeanours?

pete55 · 22 Jan 2004, 02:02 (Ref:846324)

krypto71, ask Ross Palmer how he will be operating his Procar program this year. I find it hard to believe he will be letting CAMS tell him where he can and can't race.

nafe! · 22 Jan 2004, 02:03 (Ref:846327)

Its great to hear that they arent attempting to generate revenue with each penalty. I think its a fantastic step forward by AASA to punish a driver for his actions with points loss...eventually exclusion, rather then fines.

I sincerely hope AASA get up and running, then we wont have the CAMS/AVESCO dictatorship we have now.

RaceTime · 22 Jan 2004, 02:09 (Ref:846333)

275 - I would suspect not - but it depends on how penalties are recorded ie are they kept at CAMS behind closed doors so they can be securely recorded, changed, amended and fiddled with (now surely they wouldn't do that at CAMS??) or are they physically recorded on their licence - which common sense dictates they should be ala vehicle log books..

pete55 · 22 Jan 2004, 02:15 (Ref:846337)

All fines issued by CAMS on V8 Supercar Teams and Drivers is handed to AVESCO to promote V8 Supercars so CAMS apparently make no money from those fines.

Big Treva · 22 Jan 2004, 02:15 (Ref:846339)

Welcome onboard Nafe

pete55 · 22 Jan 2004, 02:17 (Ref:846340)

Shyte, i hope i didn't sound like i was defending CAMS then.

Big Treva · 22 Jan 2004, 02:17 (Ref:846341)

Quote:

Originally posted by pete55
All fines issued by CAMS on V8 Supercar Teams and Drivers is handed to AVESCO to promote V8 Supercars so CAMS apparently make no money from those fines.

I have heard the same thing Pete

sevi · 22 Jan 2004, 02:17 (Ref:846342)

Currently on Cams licences any fines or ineligilities are recorded in the drivers and entrants licence and or log books.

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