Formula 2 RT1s

Dan Rear · 17 Dec 2003, 12:54 (Ref:813994)

We've been most other places is this area, so I thought I'd fill a bit of a gap !

My Ralt book (Lawrence) is 'on-loan' at present so I can't check details, but how many were built to F2 spec. I can think of 3 in 75, perhaps 4 in 76, another 4 or 5 in 77, plus 1 in 78. Any other offers here ?

It came to mind when I was reading a recent Motorsport, and the Thompson and Harper RT1s were mentioned. Are these real F2 cars does anyone know, or maybe uprated F3/Atlantic cars. I know we could spend hours on RT1s generally, its the ones raced in F2 that I'm after here.

David McKinney · 17 Dec 2003, 19:48 (Ref:814419)

AFAIK
1975
07 John Wingfield
08 Freddy Kottulinsky
09 Theodore Racing

1976
28 Luciano Pavesi
35 Project 4 (Hart)
53 Dabias (BMW libre)
64 Project 4 (BMW)

1977
65 Everest (Ferrari)
66 Everest (Ferrari)
67 Project 4/Hoffmann
68 Project 4/Stuck
69 (Chuck McCarty, Italy)(Ferrari)
99 Cassani (and Perkins)
E&OE

Smellybeard · 17 Dec 2003, 20:02 (Ref:814439)

RT1-9 raises it's head again. I was talking to the owner yesterday. It apparently benefitted from al lot of extra attention at the factory.

Was it ever raced as F2?

Dave?

David McKinney · 17 Dec 2003, 21:57 (Ref:814548)

As far as I know it raced only in Asia, where races were to F/At regs

Dan Rear · 18 Dec 2003, 10:48 (Ref:814968)

David, thanks for the info, but...

I agree with Dave on -9, which I thought was Atlantic in the Far East with Theodore, then between here and there, ending up with Hawkins here in 81, perhaps to Ireland afterwards. Maybe this to-ing and fro-ing resulted in the works attention, slight changes to UK and Far East spec??

Next the 77 Project 4 car -68, you say Stuck, did you mean Cheever, as Stuck was only in a works March occasionally in F2 that year as I recall.

Also what about the 77 Graham Eden/Rouff/Wilds car, presumably built as an F2 for Gp8 here in 77 with a BDG. Was it no 72, and used by Briggs in UK Atlantic in 79 and 80. Don't know thereafter.

I think -66 came back here (UK) for Mallock as an Atlantic in 79, won the championship, then to Alo in 80, and onto to Tom O'Leary in Iremand after that. Ring any bells Dave ??

Dan Rear · 18 Dec 2003, 16:32 (Ref:815347)

To come back to my first point, does anyone know what the Historic F2 Ralts of Thompson and Harper are, ie real F2s, and if so which ones, or uprated 'other' RT1s ?

David, is the -99 car (Cassani/Perkins) the one Winklehock was 3rd with in early 79 against the Wing-Cars, the 'Ring maybe??

Jeremy Jackson · 18 Dec 2003, 16:46 (Ref:815363)

Thompson's is "ex-Cheever", I think, whether that is -68 or not, I don't know.

Dan Rear · 19 Dec 2003, 13:12 (Ref:816044)

Given that Thompson is UK based, perhaps its -66, ex-Mallock/Alo/Tom O'Leary ? Isn't Harper French, if so perhaps his is -53 ?

David McKinney · 19 Dec 2003, 13:35 (Ref:816080)

I have a feeling Harper's is ex-F3. Will check later

allenbrown · 19 Dec 2003, 13:58 (Ref:816108)

Not totally relevant but RT1/14 and RT1/24 are for sale here.

Allen

allenbrown · 19 Dec 2003, 14:10 (Ref:816119)

Guess who's been googling. Philip Harper's RT1 is referred to as RT1/71 here.

allenbrown · 19 Dec 2003, 14:13 (Ref:816122)

And here.

Dan Rear · 19 Dec 2003, 15:12 (Ref:816175)

Allen, excellent detective work ! Now what about teh Christian Million RT1 !!!

Ted Walker · 5 Jan 2004, 09:19 (Ref:828025)

Im sure you all know this but Autosport did a complete chassis list of RT1s along with an article a long time ago.

allenbrown · 5 Jan 2004, 11:24 (Ref:828148)

"a long time ago"

Can you be any less precise Ted?

It was 1977, I think.

Allen

Ted Walker · 6 Jan 2004, 09:32 (Ref:829223)

Allen 1977 IS a long time ago to us old folks ???. Do you want me to look for it ???

allenbrown · 6 Jan 2004, 12:01 (Ref:829330)

No it's OK, Chris has it.

What do you mean "us" old folks? I was barely out of short trousers in 1977!

Smellybeard · 7 Jan 2004, 18:10 (Ref:830772)

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan Rear
I think -66 came back here (UK) for Mallock as an Atlantic in 79, won the championship, then to Alo in 80, and onto to Tom O'Leary in Iremand after that. Ring any bells Dave ??

Tom O Leary did have a nice ex. Alo RT1. He painted it black and red. I can't say which one that is. He had it for a couple of years befor he got a Theodore F1.
The steering column broke at high speed in Kirkistown during 1981. He looked very white after it. He said he braked gently and it stayed in a straight line...

Dave.

Chris Townsend · 8 Jan 2004, 16:24 (Ref:831716)

The Ralt build list appears in Autosport 31 March 1977

It goes as far as no 70. Sadly for us many of the 1976 and early 77 sales are via agents, esp Chuck McCarthy in Italy, so it's hard to tell who the final consignee was, even though engine - chassis combination is given on the record.
One interesting chassis, which hasn't figured in the F2 Ralts inquiry is chassis 53, built with a BMW engine for 'Debias' in France for F. Libre - so I guess an M12 engine rather than a BMW F3 moteur.

After 70 the record gets a bit hit and miss...

Chris

Dan Rear · 8 Jan 2004, 16:52 (Ref:831741)

Chris, I wonder wther the Christian Debias car, I think I recall seeing it listed in Autocourse Euro Hillclimb champ results, is the one Christian Million has used recently in Acemai F2?

phdm · 15 Jan 2004, 19:56 (Ref:839539)

I suspect the Thompson's car came from Alain Filhol and is chassis n° 64, one of the Project Four cars that Heini Mader inherited when Ron Dennis did not pay the bills for the engines. The car was afterwards hillclimbed in France by Salanon with a 1.6 M12/7 engine and then was bought by Filhol.
The car that Debias bought from Ralt was especially built for hillclimbs with smaller brakes. It was tested in Auto Hebdo magazine in the late seventies. It was fitted with an 2 litre M12/7. No clue whether this is the car now being raced by Million.

allenbrown · 16 Jan 2004, 13:04 (Ref:840297)

Hi phdm

Good to have you here. Welcome.

Allen

Dan Rear · 16 Jan 2004, 13:24 (Ref:840325)

phdm, any clues as to who you are, very knowledgeable in these matters evidently ! As regards Ron D, did he not pay the bills as late as 77, I'd thought by then he was all legit and above these tactics...

Chris Townsend · 16 Jan 2004, 13:42 (Ref:840356)

I don't think RT1-64 has a French history.
Granted that was one of the Project 4 cars, used by Cheever
and Mader runs it for Romeo Camathias in early F2 in 1978. But, this isn't this the Alo Lawler car in 1978-1979?
The chassis number is given in F1R for 78 [dodgy but...] and I may even have noted it myself at the time. [I think it's also given in a magazine or two.]
This car passes to Tom O'Leary in 1981 I think

Chris

Dan Rear · 16 Jan 2004, 13:56 (Ref:840380)

Chris, Don't know about Alo's 78 RT1, with a Hart F2 motor, but in 79 he was Lola-ing. The RT1 he had in 80, then passed to O'Leary in 81, was the ex-Mallock FAt car from 79. I think we've established this as an ex-Italian one from 77, no -66, Scuderia Everest rins a bell ??

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