New European "NASCAR" series: „American Stock Cars Europe“

[FIRE]

Former F1 and sportscar driver Jochen Mass is planning to start a new oval series in Europe:

In der Pre Race Show beim Eastside 100 auf dem Eurospeedway Lausitz bewegte Jochen Mass wie angekündigt einen nagelneuen Dodge Charger, wie er auch im NASCAR Nextel Cup zum Einsatz kommt. Das Stock Car auf Basis eines Road Course Chassis mit Superspeedway Reifen war in Dodge Werks Farben lackiert.

Ebenfalls will Jochen Mass mit diesen Fahrzeugen eine Serie namens „American Stock Cars Europe“ gründen, welche nächstes Jahr schon durchstarten soll unter der Flagge der FIA. Der Kostenpunkt für die rennbereiten Boliden soll bei 140.000 Euro liegen, während bereits 23 Fahrzeuge in den USA wohl bereit stehen.
...
Die Interessenten kommen allerdings hauptsächlich aus Skandinavien, England und den Niederlanden. Zur Zeit sieht es aus, als sollten Rennen am Eurospeedway Lausitz, Rockingham, Hockenheim und Silverstone sowie neu gebauten Ovalen in Spanien und der Niederlande statt finden. Bei dem Oval in den Niederlanden handelt es sich nach ersten Angaben um kein geringeres als Venray, welches bald umgebaut wird zu einer größeren Strecke. Als Unterbau soll die SCSA sowie die BRL gelten. Als TV Partner soll Eurosport die Rennen live übertragen, inklusive weiterer Zusammenfassungen in Deutschland ersten Informationen zufolge.
...

Source: www.stockcar-news.de

Short translation:

In the pre race show of the Eastside 100 [= German F3 Cup] at the Eurospeedway Lausitz Jochen Mass drove a brand-new Dodge Charger, which is also used in the NASCAR Nextel Cup. This car is based on a road course chassis with superspeedway tires and painted in Dodge factory colors. With these cars Mass wants to create a series named "American Stock Cars Europe", it's planned to start next year under the flag of FIA. A race ready car will cost around 140,000 Euro and 23 cars are already waiting in the USA.
...
There's mainly interest from customers in Scandinavia, UK and Holland. At the moment it looks if there will be races at Eurospeedway Lausitz, Rockingham, Hockenheim and Silverstone as well on new ovals in Spain and Holland. The current oval at Venray in Holland will shortly replaced by a new and bigger one. As support series SCSA and BRL are considered. TV partner Eurosport will do live TV coverage.

So far oval racing wasn't a succes in Europe so I am curious if this series will get of the ground. If i.e. Dodge and Toyota (Lexus) will support this series it can work. The cars are already available in the US (no development costs). They only have to spend money on promotion and maybe support of teams (technical and/or financial). There were rumours Lexus would enter DTM or WTCC but according some German websites they will not. Why not European "NASCAR"? This year the Dodge brand was relaunched in Europe so they can use some promotion. Dodge is also rumoured to enter WTCC next year, but why not "NASCAR"?

I think by European drivers there would be a lott of interest in a professional oval series. I am sure Dutch drivers like Patrick Huisman, Duncan Huisman (both have expressed their interested in NASCAR) and Michel Vergers (has already a lott US & UK oval experience) would be very interested.

In the German article they speak about live coverage by Eurosport, but I have my doubts about that because Eurosport is already organiser of the WTCC.

[Matski]

Could be good

[thebear]

Possibly a method of `recycling' obsolete NA$CAR vehicles as "The Car of Tomorow" comes on line?

[Dutton]

Interesting news, and it will certainly be something to keep an eye on (i.e. seeing if it actually comes to fruition).

I am not convinced this style of racing will ever be that popular in Europe, but, then, I suppose, there is a first time for everything.

Is that other stock car series still running in Europe? I cannot remember what it was/is called...used to watch a few rounds of it...had Plato and stuff in it for a bit.

Hmmm....

I wonder if NASCAR itself would be interested in getting identified with it? I don't mean in any "official" capacity (i.e. regulatory or partnership), but rather so that those who see this in Europe will see the NASCAR name.

I am thinking something like NASCAR advertising boarding. Just it is a way, should it become popular, for NASCAR itself to get some expanded interest.

Having said that, though, perhaps it is better to hope not. Such involvement may cause a negative reaction? I am thinking in terms of people in Europe then thinking it is a NASCAR product, thus ignoring it for that reason?

Right, I am rambling...so, hmm, I will stop.

[Speedworx]

Will never happen with cars priced at that.

[Minicross424]

If SCSA is struggleing how will this do any better?

[Al Weyman]

140,000 Euros! Anyone want to by my Banjo Mathews IROC chassis for lets say 50,000, its a bargain and save me a rebuild job, wack a different body on it and you are away! :-)

Joking aside the price is silly but this is what should have happened with ASCAR years ago and I have been banging on about.

[Minicross424]

Al, Jon Higgins car is in Short Circuit for £10,000 plus vat and that seems a bargin to me.
I know you have been interested in going oval for a while and i would love to be part of a team involved in this...............

[PCR]

Originally Posted by Dutton

I wonder if NASCAR itself would be interested in getting identified with it?

No, they don´t want to support the series in the beginning.

[luke]

I was a big fan of ASCAR. It was good. I liked it when they raced at Rockingham and Lausitz.
As we know there is plans for a track in Spain and they could use the planned half mile track at Silverstone if that ever comes to life as mentioned. I remember ASCAR nka SCSA attracted Colin Mcrae and Jason Plato...
I always wished ASCAR raced on the Brands Hatch Indy circuit...Is SCSA still alive?

[PCR]

Originally Posted by luke

Is SCSA still alive?

Yes.

[ss_collins]

only just - 9 cars or something.

I saw Mass demoing the Dodge at Eurospeedway - nice but it would only work with 30 - 40 of them - something SCSA has always lacked. Cars are overpriced and not good value for it. Another problem is that the car shapes are pretty meaningless in the EU, Ford Taurus, Dodge Charger and Chevrolet thingy none of which are on sale here. A WTCC or BTC oval race could be a lot of fun. But the best oval in these parts racing is still the NHRPA with its recognisable silohettes.

Rockingham needs a new top formula - SCSA needs to be dropped or drastically altered. Its race meetings need to be busier.

Things I'd like to see at Rockingham

An annual F3 race with large prize fun and lots of razzmatazz (see Eastside 100)

A single seater oval formula, good looking cars but affordable (perhaps reworked FPA or FRockingham)

SCSA being dropped or races shortened by a half - not being promoted as premier series.

Pickups remain great as they are

Baby grands?

Things I'd like to see at Eurospeedway

a German Pickup series (same cars same rules but all in Germany for German teams)

Eastside 100 getting proper promotion

A single seater oval formula, good looking cars but affordable (perhaps reworked FPA or FRockingham)

German Baby Grands

for both - an annual Oval challenge where all the series go to one or the other and take each other on.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

I saw Mass demoing the Dodge at Eurospeedway - nice but it would only work with 30 - 40 of them - something SCSA has always lacked. Cars are overpriced and not good value for it. Another problem is that the car shapes are pretty meaningless in the EU, Ford Taurus, Dodge Charger and Chevrolet thingy none of which are on sale here.

I have mixed feelings about using US cars in Europe. The Ford Taurus, Dodge Charger and Chevrolet Monte Carlo are indeed meaningless to Europeans but they could rebadge them to Ford Mondeo, Dodge Caliber and Opel/Vauxhall Vectra (of course they have to change the headlights ). So IMO that's not a problem. Of course the shape of these cars don't look like European cars. I have always thought that would be a major problem in the acceptence of NASCAR (and oval racing in general). But I do no longer think that's the major problem because a full grid of big and noisy V8 cars is very impressive on itself. Also F1 has cars which do not look like road cars but is still very succesfull.

The major problem is to get a grid of at least 30 cars. Also getting good TV coverage and support of manufacturers and major sponsors will not be easy.

Originally Posted by ss_collins

A WTCC or BTC oval race could be a lot of fun. But the best oval in these parts racing is still the NHRPA with its recognisable silohettes.

Something like V8Stars (didn't they have a race at Lausitz a few years ago?). Last week WTCC had a race at Puebla and they used half of the oval. I would love to see 25 of these WTCC cars at the full Puebla oval next year. But this is wishfull thinking.

[R59]

There is one problem here. WHO is going to race them? I don't want to be the harbinger of doom.

SCSA as a support? I don't think so. SCSA has it's own problems. There are things happening there to try and breath new life into it. Here are some figures to frighten you.

Last year, if your SCSA car made it to the grid, and took the start, you got £3000 up your shirt.

Due to a loss of backing for the series, the change of circuit ownership, etc..

For the first part of this year, to appear on the grid would have cost you £1370. That's why nobody is/was there.

While the pickups are fast, close, and very racy, they are not the angry cars that people go to rockingham to watch. Purists, please stop before you post. The PUBLIC are the people who go to be entertained by big V8 angry cars, not close packs of shrieking pickups.

There has never been a better time to "invest" in a European spec ASA car (ASCAR/SCSA whatever), as you can get your hands on one for around £10K.
The engine's worth that on it's own (450bhp 'spec' GM Vortec/LS1), add to that the Jerico gearbox worth about £3K, and the Superspeedway spec Winters axle worth again, about £3-5K.

I very good friend of mine runs a short circuit website, and often talks to members of the general public at various meetings.
He has found....
They love CAMSO, SCSA, F1 stocks, and want to love NASCAR over here. The one thing in common - V8.
The NHRPA HotRods provide excellent racing, but nothing beats the spectacle of BriSCA F1. It's a noise thing.

He also has the ear of the current SCSA organisers, and recently, the entry "fee" has been dropped.

V8 Stars failed because it's opposition was the steamroller that is DTM. The cars have a new lease of life in the Rhino's GT's, Dutch Supercar Challenge, and the new EERC Dunlop V8 Supercar Challenge.

I 'WANT' to see SCSA survive. Part of me wants to race there, subject to budget. Fingers crossed, I'm finally doing my "rookie training" this coming Friday, so I'll be one step closer.

So, get off your collective's and go to Rockingham this coming weekend. The "supports" for the SCSA are some two-bit championships called British GT, and British F3.

Rob.

[Minicross424]

Interesting points racing59.
I agree its a good time to invest in the SCSA cars, Jon Higgins car is a very good price even though im not sure what running costs are like for a season.

I dont agree that BRISCA F1s is a better spectable that the Nat Hot Rods.
I think that the World Finals is one of the best races in britain of the year.
Why O why i decided to go to the DTM instead this year ill never know!

I also think that if Rockingham had been around when the Eurocars V6 and V8 were in there prime then that would had of proved a massive boost for them and produced the size of crowds at the rock we see now.

A single seater series would also provide great racing and i think with the success of Dan Weldon, Dario Francitti etc that you would get some very hungury lads and ladies competing if the cars looked good as said by Sam.
It would provide a good stepping stone from the oval of karting before targeting America.

As some of you know i just race a ex rallycross Mini on my local track but i learnt my trade on the Autograss oval and if the funding come along i would be doing National Hotrods in a Tigra tommrow!

[courageous]

ASCAR / SCSA had big name drivers, reasonable size grids & quite a good marketing campaign in the first couple of years - it didn't catch on.
The proof is in the pudding, stock cars in Europe should stick to places like Wimbledon (personally I enjoy them, but obviousley I am in a minority).

[Peter Wardle]

I dont think you'll ever see F3 cars at any price racing seriously on an oval - far to delicate and the engine attrition would be huge - look what happened to Joey Foster too!
I've also been having a good look at the F3 tubs and nose system and they really aren't designed at all for running into walls.
But there is an alternative on the go with a fully oval crash tested tub, over 400bhp and around 200 straight line speed - should be fun - oh - and the drivers will get paid.......

[Al Weyman]

I see one of those SCCA's go into the wall just before I was to take my IROC out and it was not a pretty sight, I confess I kept well low through Turn 4 after that.

[R59]

Originally Posted by courageous

ASCAR / SCSA had big name drivers, reasonable size grids & quite a good marketing campaign in the first couple of years - it didn't catch on.

It didn't catch on because, quite simply, the money ran out which kept the big name drivers on the grid, with their big teams. The big money inflated the cost of the cars, and the cost of running them, and kept everyone else away. Catch 22.

Now it's fending for itself, but is cash starved. It's lean, mean, and there's a steady movement in the right direction. It's hoped to have up to 18 cars on the grid for the September meeting. If I get some funding, I hope to be one of them.

The crowd are the die-hard SCSA watchers, a hard core 3000 or so that make it to each round. With no bands playing as part of the day, a lot of other punters no longer come along to watch the racing as a bit of a sideline.

I still say, Mr Average in the street, likes to see 'angry cars', not wet f&rts.

Rob.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by racing59

I still say, Mr Average in the street, likes to see 'angry cars', not wet f&rts.

I don't think it's 'angry cars' more like 'cars with character' - certainly the big snorty cars tend to have more character than some of the more 'mundane' cars but it's character that counts - the Minis always seem to be popular (and that holds true for Minis running in series like DTRC as well as the Mini only series). Your Belmont and John Cross' Focus - both big V8's but more importantly both cars have character, they're something a bit different from the norm and that's what makes them stand out.

Back to SCSA - part of the problem is that it only runs at Rockingham, I've never seen SCSA in the flesh and I'm not trekking to Rockingham to 'try it for size'. If it ventured further in my direction I might take a look - and I'm sure I'm not the only person with that view. I don't know how practical it would be to run the cars elsewhere (not very I guess) but they've got their hardcore fan base and that's not going to grow if they can't show the series off to a wider audience of 'casual' fans and hook some of them.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Peter Wardle

I dont think you'll ever see F3 cars at any price racing seriously on an oval - far to delicate and the engine attrition would be huge - look what happened to Joey Foster too!
I've also been having a good look at the F3 tubs and nose system and they really aren't designed at all for running into walls.
But there is an alternative on the go with a fully oval crash tested tub, over 400bhp and around 200 straight line speed - should be fun - oh - and the drivers will get paid.......

Yes, but where is it? Months, or years, of promises and still nothing. Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to buy a load of ex IRL and/ or Champcars (now that they are changing the chassis) and run those at Rockingham and Lausitzring, as well as a few road courses. "Euro Champcar" anyone?

[andy97]

Originally Posted by luke

I was a big fan of ASCAR. It was good. I liked it when they raced at Rockingham and Lausitz.
As we know there is plans for a track in Spain and they could use the planned half mile track at Silverstone if that ever comes to life as mentioned. I remember ASCAR nka SCSA attracted Colin Mcrae and Jason Plato...
I always wished ASCAR raced on the Brands Hatch Indy circuit...Is SCSA still alive?

It only attracted Plato and Mcrae et al because they were paid big appearance money to be there. When the money ran out, sadly, so did the big name stars and the after race rock concerts etc.

Its a real shame but I think that the US style cars are a big problem and the fact that it only runs at one place. Can European style bodies be fitted - BMW 5 series, Audi A6/A8, Jaguar, VW Phaeton etc etc? Would running closely on the oval result in aero problems if there were different body styles?

Somebody tell me, would it be possible to run the SCSA cars on short track ovals, or on the Mallory mile? And possibly in a multi class format with the VSRV6/V8/Super Silhouettes or similar?

The series needs to be "europeanised" and needs to go on the road (by that I mean around the country, not on road courses)

[ss_collins]

I dont think you'll ever see F3 cars at any price racing seriously on an oval - far to delicate and the engine attrition would be huge - look what happened to Joey Foster too

Sorry Peter but thats just bunk! I was watching a F3 oval race just a fortnight ago at Eurospeedway - fantastic racing, crowd loved it, great event. If you look at Joey's wreck the car doesn't look too bad I think it was just really bad luck. First real injury in 2 years of F3 oval races
Re engine attrition - not an issue at all NBE engineers said they really didn't struggle at all. For more on F3 oval racing see Racecar Eng. November issue

Pics from eurospeedway F3 here...

http://www.formel3.de/index.php?inha...os/2006-07-30/

New cars are expensive - F3 exists and is successful so why change.

[luke]

Originally Posted by monty-fan

Yes.

That's the point. No one knows anymore. Around 2-3-4 years a go it had huge crowds big marketing had good TV coverge now its dying.

[luke]

I'll have to watch the F3 at Lausitz. I remember when the Euro F3000 series that was called Italian f3000 series again wanted to do a race there on the oval or the Nissan World Series at the time..
I expect the race will be on World Motor Sport some time.. What series was that?