Delays to a Race Day Program

[Walshy]

This might throw the cat amongst the pigeons a bit one thinks, but it is intended as a simple question and not a jibe at anyone.

What was done so differently at Silverstone for the Walter Hayes trophy in terms of time saving than is done at most other circuits on a normal race day.

Let me explain.

On the Saturday at Silverstone, the first cars of the day were not out on circuit until 10:30 (approx) and the last race was finished before 16:00hrs (approx). We still had a lunch period and a full days racing, yet nobody lost laps. Everyone got a full race and there were incidents to disrupt the day.

We have days at Oulton Park when races are cut short or don't take place at all due to lack of time. Curfews to be met etc.

So what was done so differently at Silverstone? Is it just so well oiled?

I know you could argue that they have more room to leave cars in gravel traps safely, but every car that went off was retrieved with haste and with no disruption to the racing and as many races as a full day at Oulton were acheived in a fraction of the time?

[Ian Sowman]

We had eight races 3h 52m (from the start of the first race to the end of the last). Few things to bear in mind include two races were very short, none of them more than the 20m which seems the norm at Oulton (but which might be 5m too long) and the fact that the lap is much shorter. Also, distance from assembley to grid is shorter as well.

Eight races in about four hours is what I would expect from a 'typical' clubbie.

[diz]

Saturday practice started at 09.00. It was the FFs' out at 10.15

Snatch vehicles help, but don't seem to be used at Oulton, partly due to the layout and probably due to the cost of them.

Silverstone? Is just so well oiled. Lot's of practice.

Another point is that FF1600 had a Safety Car at the Brands Festival [a first to my knowledge] and James Beckett's Citroen had flashing lights and a Safety Car sign at the WHT, but wasn't used. Use of a Safety Car at 'clubbies' should be introduced, especially now that the battenburg flag has been binned. It is the perfect middle course between yellows and race stopping reds. A lot of the 'delays' when races are stopped is the phaffing about to get them restarted.

[Walshy]

Some good points.

Your right about the safety cars though. Maybe I could add that to the list eh Diz?

[goughy]

Delays at Oulton. Simple, more often than not when there is an accident (which at Oulton there are only ever 'big' off's) a huge amount of time is always lost rebuilding tyre walls and/or armco. Afraid thats the nature of the beast and I'm not too sure how you deal with it, other than introduce vast run off's, but then that would not be Oulton Park would it.

[Walshy]

It's very rare a tyre barrier or a piece of Armco gets demolished though isn't it?

Like Diz says, the tend to flap a little.

I remember a few years ago on a warm up lap heading down to Island bend. Colin Nield warmed his tyres a little to violently and spat the car off into the barrier on the outside. Instead of wheeling the car to the inside at the Island hairpin, they left us all sat on the grid for 20 minutes whilst they recovered his car all the way back to the pits. That cost us a handful of laps that did.

[diz]

Good point goughy. I'd forgotten tyre walls and damaged armco posts and the like.

[D_Marshall]

Originally posted by diz
Snatch vehicles help, but don't seem to be used at Oulton, partly due to the layout and probably due to the cost of them.

I think this was the main difference at Silverstone. When a car is in the gravel at Oulton in a dangerous place the race has to be stopped to send a recovery vehicle to move the car. However it seemed every corner at Silverstone had it's own recovery vehicles and incidents could be delt with quickly under waved yellows. Also because there is so much run off there are safe places to leave the cars that have come off.

[foreversideways]

The way forward. Lots of snatch vehicles

[diz]

Originally posted by foreversideways
The way forward. Lots of snatch vehicles

Are you being rude?

It was hardly worth them unloading your car at Brooklands, no sooner were you freed, than you made a wild lunge for the same piece of gravel trap and a reunion with the same hook They should have left you dangling.

[foreversideways]

Oh you know how to hit where it hurts diz. Lucky you were only watching at Brooklands. I had some fun at Copse to, but luckily no gravel

[Piglet]

Originally posted by Walshy
It's very rare a tyre barrier or a piece of Armco gets demolished though isn't it?

Not at Oulton Park it isn't and I'm not sure why but it always seems to take a considerable amount of time to repair the damage in contrast to say Croft where any barrier damage is always repaired very quickly. I'm not sure why that would be?

The other advantage at Silverstone was that as this was club racing there were no specified countdown procedures to go through.

[Ian Sowman]

The latter point applies equally at OP though Piglet.

[diz]

Originally posted by Ian Sowman
The latter point applies equally at OP though Piglet.

And also, the latter point of

specified countdown procedures to go through

is just a needless delay to the timetable - not just on restarts - because the powers that be, both organisational and teams, have too high an opinion of what they actually are. National racing is basically Club racing with a lot more money thrown at it and more expensive toys, The spectators demand none stop action and neither National, nor Club provide that because of the 'phaffing about factor'
So I say "Cut out the Phaff"

[Ian Sowman]

Some club race meetings - such as those organised by 750MC - do get closer to it by effectively eliminating the countdowns (five minutes lasted about 12 seconds at Mallory the other week).

[foreversideways]

On returning to racing this year i felt one of the worthwhile changes that had been made in NWFF was the elimination of the countdown meeting. I don't see any reason for it, at any National/Club Level (well except for those ones with the nice grid girls). Also does the barrier design at Oulton Park make it more difficult to repair than Croft. When Robert Weeks had his rather large off at Druids in Friday testing prior to the last round at Outon it effectively ruined most peoples day due to the time it took to re establish the barrier. Perhaps the circuit need to look at better barrier design. I don't know and now expect to be shot down by people who do

[diz]

Originally posted by Ian Sowman
(five minutes lasted about 12 seconds at Mallory the other week).

Did I ever tell you about my microwave bed?
I get a full eight hours sleep in ten minutes.

[Alan Crook]

Originally posted by Ian Sowman
(five minutes lasted about 12 seconds at Mallory the other week).

Must be getting slower in my old age !!!

Some years ago at Croix in France I was doing the same job and was asked how quick the minutes would be.
Answer:- as quick as I can change the numbers in the holder.

HSCC carry out the countdown in the assembly area and do the green flag lap straight from there.

It would be interesting to hear drivers views on the various start procedures used by different clubs. I would also like to hear what drivers think of the loss of green lights for starts. I would still like to see green lights used for rolling starts.

[Woolley]

A countdown is worth doing for the 'big' event of a major meeting while the commentators do a build up. For anything else, it's a complete waste of time, and an opportunity for cars to overheat and break down, thus introducing further delays. Bin it, I say.

[jminsh]

Never waited for greens in the old days always went when the reds went out so no change really!!

[foreversideways]

When the reds dim, the clutches come up

[mark_l]

The biggest problem with armco at Oulton Park is most of the posts are in sand or a light soil, so when a car hits the armco the posts move very easily.

I have stood at OP and rocked an armco post with my hands, John Symes passes them as fit, I have my doubts.

Another cause of delays at the start of a meeting is communication, Race Control cant contact all the marshals post or a rescue vehicle is having comms problems.

[Dave Brand]

Originally posted by mark_l
The biggest problem with armco at Oulton Park is most of the posts are in sand or a light soil, so when a car hits the armco the posts move very easily.

Armco barriers should deflect on impact to improve their energy absorbtion & to decelerate the vehicle more slowly. Motorway barriers use relatively weak posts for this reason. Using strong posts embedded in a soft base allows the Armco to do its job & to be reinstated quickly.

[mark_l]

They should deflect the impact, not fold down virtually flat.

You should not be able to move a post with your hands.

The problem with some circuits is that the posts are not reinstated but only pulled back into the vertical by a tow rope and vehicle. Badly split posts are also common.

[Garry Holmes]

The problem of stopping races doesn't just effect Oulton, but from my side of the barrier - if you don't want the race stopping SLOW DOWN FOR THE YELLOWS. At Mallory for the HSCC we had a car off at the exit of the esses, most races featured people spinning up the grass after hitting the kerbs on the inside. So we stood & waited for a gap in the traffic to try and shift the undamaged car to a saf(er) position - ie not side on, but when the cars started approaching us backwards and sideways we decided descretion is the better park of valor & left it. I've also had the leader take the wing mirror off a car we were moving on the exit of Island on the way into Shell at the Gold Cup a couple of years ago, its not fun when that kind of thing happens. Personally as a marshal I hate race stops, I always thought it was our job to keep things moving if something happened, but things may have changed.