1999 - The Year It Shouldn't Have Been?

luke · 22 Sep 2005, 15:51 (Ref:1414107)

*Contains spoilers of the 1999 season for those who haven't watched the season yet*

Now I know I did the thread on '2002 - What Should Have Been?'..... Well I happened to have seen the 1999 F1 season review over the past few days, I know what your thinking, but I remember at the time after a few years back, when Michael Schuamcher won the title in 2000, when many would have felt he should have in '99, although I know to well people don't feel he would have won the title that year even if he didn't have that unfortunate crash at Silverstone where he suffered a broken leg and missed the rest of the season but re-joing for the penaultimate rounds.
I always thought 2000 was the better season over '99, but it may have been down to the fact that Schumacher finaly won the title but looking back at the season reviews, '99 looked far more exciting although it could easierly have been similar to 2000 as at lot of things that happened would not normaly happen espcially in the later years.
For example Hakkinen had far to many mechanical let downs, and yes he did make a few crusial mistakes (Imola and Monza where he spun out with a clear lead) and many mistakes from his team mate DC, where Coulthard mad an error as he spun Hakkinen round at Austria and made a half hearted move on him at Spa. If none of this happened I expect Hakkinen would have been a clear winner in the championship, and we wouldn't have had these unpredictable exciting races.
Also if you look at how well Irvine did, just finishing off two points in the standings to champion Mika, I was a big Eddie fan, but facts and facts, the races he won, was down to others errors or msifortune and if Schumacher hadn't have broken his leg at Sliverstone then I'm sure he would have won many more races and had the better of Mika but no one can prove this or against this but the fact is Irvine finished within two points of Mika.
What are your views of '99?

TheNewBob · 22 Sep 2005, 16:24 (Ref:1414137)

One thing to remember about '99 - Jordan's greatest season. Wasn't Frentzen in the title hunt with 3 races left? Also Johnny Herbert and Stewart GP recording the team's only victory at the Nurburgring thriller.

Inigo Montoya · 22 Sep 2005, 16:54 (Ref:1414154)

The thing I'll remember most is the amazing recovery that Michael made from his injuries. If I remember correctly, he moved over to let Irvine take the win in his very first race back. That recovery, along with his win the day after his mother's funeral, I consider two of the most impressive accomplishments of his stellar career.

ASCII Man · 22 Sep 2005, 17:15 (Ref:1414165)

Hmmm i wouldn't blame monza too much on Mika, didn't he have brake failure there?

**Adam43** · 22 Sep 2005, 17:48 (Ref:1414177)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya

The thing I'll remember most is the amazing recovery that Michael made from his injuries. If I remember correctly, he moved over to let Irvine take the win in his very first race back.

Fantastic pole lap, fantastic race. The best no.1 AND the nest no.2 in the business. I consider that his best race ever.

luke · 22 Sep 2005, 18:07 (Ref:1414189)

I seem to remember Mika not beeing happy about that at all.

esorniloc · 22 Sep 2005, 18:14 (Ref:1414191)

The thing I remember the most from 99 was Luca Badoer in a Minardi running in 4th or 5th spot and breaking down in the Europe GP.

**Adam43** · 22 Sep 2005, 18:16 (Ref:1414194)

Quote:

Originally Posted by luke

I seem to remember Mika not beeing happy about that at all.

Of course he wasn't he just lost the race to it! He wasn't going to do a jig.

And then he was world champion a few hours later, and then a few days later not again.

McLaren3gr · 22 Sep 2005, 19:24 (Ref:1414234)

The thing that i remember from 99' ,apart from Mika's championship is the stupid error of DC in the last race that cost us the constructor's championship ...

luke · 22 Sep 2005, 19:58 (Ref:1414257)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

Of course he wasn't he just lost the race to it! He wasn't going to do a jig.

And then he was world champion a few hours later, and then a few days later not again.

Well he said around the lines of Michael was breaking in non breaking zones and nearly causing crashes and taken strange lines, and driving strange I think certainly gave Eddie the gap he needed.

Still can not believe how unrealiable the Mclaren was and still is to an extent now.

**Adam43** · 22 Sep 2005, 20:03 (Ref:1414260)

There is no question that Schumacher engineered the gap Irvine needed. It was remarkable.

Mika's comment on the situation (from Atlas after the race):

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlas F1

Mika Hakkinen was exhausted, hardly managing to stand on the podium after a race he described as "the hardest race of my life," before complementing the Ferrari men on their victory. "They had brilliant tactics. I don't blame them. I had to drive flat out all the way. I was never sure when Michael was going to brake. I had to be careful - it took maximum concentration to follow him for most of the race."

**John Turner** · 22 Sep 2005, 20:29 (Ref:1414285)

Quote:

Originally Posted by McLaren3gr

The thing that i remember from 99' .......... is the stupid error of DC in the last race that cost us the constructor's championship ...

What was that error exactly? The records show that DC played a very strong team game in support of Mika at Suzuka that day, despite a recalcitrant gearbox which eventually eliminated him from the race.

**Adam43** · 22 Sep 2005, 20:52 (Ref:1414304)

IIRC he spun and lost his wing early on in the race, but then gearbox problems put him out. I don't think the spin was a result of gerbox problems, but I could be wrong.

Hazza · 22 Sep 2005, 22:05 (Ref:1414351)

What about Mika Salo being in a position to win the German GP on debut only having to move aside for Eddie?

Eddie was so guilty that he gave the winner's trophy to Mika!

Inigo Montoya · 22 Sep 2005, 22:15 (Ref:1414355)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hazza

What about Mika Salo being in a position to win the German GP on debut only having to move aside for Eddie?

Eddie was so guilty that he gave the winner's trophy to Mika!

That was also an amazing accomplishment! Its too bad he was not rewarded with a contract at Ferrari.

**Adam43** · 22 Sep 2005, 22:17 (Ref:1414357)

Minor point, but it wasn't Salo's debut in the Ferrari it was his second race for them. It was still impressive.

Could you imagine around here if we had to go through a '99. Which was a relatively calm year by some comparison! Team orders, TGF injured, JV off the pace, Hill off the pace, Button driving into a pit wall in F3, Webber flipping at Le Mans. This place would explode! And all because interesting things happened!

No clue · 23 Sep 2005, 09:01 (Ref:1414608)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya

The thing I'll remember most is the amazing recovery that Michael made from his injuries. If I remember correctly, he moved over to let Irvine take the win in his very first race back. That recovery, along with his win the day after his mother's funeral, I consider two of the most impressive accomplishments of his stellar career.

That first race in Malaysia! Still today for me one of races that will always stand out in my mind.

To the topic - Irvine did not deserve to win the title in 99, he just was not "good" enough (before people start jumping on my head, I used to be a fan, really liked the bloke). Only 2 people deserved it that year - Mika and Schu. Unfortonately Silverstone ended Schu's title bid.

Great year though.

Hazza · 23 Sep 2005, 09:11 (Ref:1414614)

I agree that he didn't "Deserve" the victory, I think all his victories came from Mclaren "Doing their best to loose the title" and from Team-Orders etc.

However in Melborne he just drove a solid race and had the luck.

A question -- I've read conflicting reports as to what the final margin of victory for Mika was, if Schu had of pulled over then Mika would've won on a countback or what?

**Adam43** · 23 Sep 2005, 09:14 (Ref:1414617)

Yes Mika would have won on count back. Same points, 76, and five victories to Mika and four to Irvine.

Hein · 23 Sep 2005, 09:21 (Ref:1414619)

That was also the year we saw the best of HH Frentzen, and Jordan! They finished 3rd if I am correct. A major achievment!

Raglanparade · 23 Sep 2005, 09:31 (Ref:1414624)

My favorite moment was the Minardi at the Nurburging.

climb · 23 Sep 2005, 09:51 (Ref:1414645)

In 1999 Macs made more mistakes than in the rest if their history; much of them have been recalled in this thread.
At the same time Irvine had the luckiest season he could imagine, but Ferrari and himself made as well loads of mistakes, and, as many reckon, the team bosses basically didn't want the 2nd driver to win what would have been a historical title for Ferrari.
With MS in good conditions he would probably have taken better advantage of Macs absurdities, and have avoided some internal problems, and have had the team's best motivations on his side.
If we add that he's unquestionably better than Irvine, we can be quite confident that he would have won the title.

climb · 23 Sep 2005, 09:52 (Ref:1414647)

... nonetheless I agree that his absence made that season particularly exciting.

strider · 23 Sep 2005, 10:27 (Ref:1414666)

I remember there being a lot of talk post-Silverstone that MS's accident might well have been down to an error on his part. There were tyre marks at Stowe to support this and the suggestion was that he was in too much of a hurry to put Irvine in his place immediately.

A conspiracy theory, if you like, but it fits with the slightly half-hearted way Ferrari went about helping Irvine towards the title.

**Adam43** · 23 Sep 2005, 10:47 (Ref:1414680)

How does it 'fit' (or rather fit more) that Michael made a mistake so Ferrari didn't try?

Surely the cause of the accident makes no difference? Just the fact that it occurred. FWIW (i.e. it won't change anyone's mind) I think the wind of knocked out of the Ferrari's sails because they lsot Michael, but they didn't try to lose the title on purpose.

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