I'm Sorry!

Dov · 29 Dec 2003, 12:03 (Ref:822518)

I wanted to apologize to BobbyB & Indycool for SOME of the things I said last night on the "Franchitti" thread. While I still don't like TG and the IRL, I am happy to hear from Indycool and especially BobbyB any time! I would also like to apologize to, Macdaddy. What I REFUSE to apologize for is being a CART fan through and through till the day I die and I will continually go after THOSE people that are hoping (IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!!!) for ChampCars demise. That said, I will try to do it in a more mature fashion!

KEEP ON ROLLIN' CART>>>

Jordi · 29 Dec 2003, 14:24 (Ref:822590)

It's OK Dov. I hope you and everyone involved in that thread learned the lesson.

We can agree, disagree, discuss, be happy, be angry, but we can't shout, insult or have a lack of respect for the other members. Not if we consider ourselves grown adults...

gaines · 29 Dec 2003, 15:21 (Ref:822610)

Isn't it funny though that the thread where everybody takes off the gloves and throws down ends up with over a thousand views? That's more than any other post on either board. I guess no matter how civil we try to be, we still love a good fight. Shameful...yet so open wheel of us. We've been doing so good lately too. I thought just maybe the war was over and we could finally get back to just talking about racing and not worrying about each other's series. Oh well, venom is as much a part of this sport as anything else.

About all the jumping around of teams, drivers, sponsors and auto makers, don't you feel a little proud of Ford? I mean they could have jumped ship to grab the advertising that the Indy 500 brings, which still does bring in tons of viewers, but they didn't. They've stayed loyal to champ cars. That's pretty impressive to me considering Toyota and Honda couldn't resist the temptation(aside from the engine change fiasco.) Instead of shamefully hanging on to those who've left the series, why not instead look positively at those who we still have?

Mikey, Dario, Helio, Kanaan, etc made a choice. They took an educated guess that CART would go out of business and guess what, IT DID! Instead of flying the bird to them let's just ignore them and instead enjoy the fact that we have some great young talents coming up that in a few years will make us forget all about the likes of them. It's just a matter of time.

Besides, Open Wheel wants to be friends with the IRL and perhaps merge at some point. We'll all be in bad shape if two years from now we're all shoved into one forum together and we've never been able to stop belittling each other. I don't think it will be much fun to come here after that. Then again, after seeing the number of views a good old fashioned donniebrook gets, it might be the most popular board on the internet.

GP Racer · 29 Dec 2003, 16:57 (Ref:822642)

Well said gaines, especially that last paragraph!

I've only on very rare occasions, seen anyone come to this forum and truly bash Champ Cars. What I have seen are people come here and give some very divergent views on the situation that CART is now in.

But that said, most of the opinions given here are well thought out, and even if they don't tow the company line, or even if they think that the direction CART is taking stinks, they shouldn't be dismissed as bashing, disloyal, or IRL lovers. Not all of us can look through rose-colored glasses at the present situation Champ Cars finds itself. That doesn't mean we want CART to die or our opinions looked down upon. There are a few people here that want to be "Super Fans" of Champ Cars, and they will never say anything negative about the series no matter what, and thats OK, I think that's great, but you shouldn't dismiss those that do as bashers. That will just chase away people who have some interesting views, that may be different than your own.

I've been very impressed with guys like indycool, fogelhound, and some of the other guys who truly know the business aspects of racing. There posts on the ins and outs of this buyout have been real interesting and showed many of us how complicated this situation is. We need guys like that.

I really like this forum, and the people in it. Its interesting and I've learned alot. Having differences of opinion is OK, its what makes a forum a forum!

Cheers

Jay · 29 Dec 2003, 17:16 (Ref:822652)

Well said guys! This is a CART forum, and one of the better ones - but, for me at least, the IRL fans are more than welcome and I hope we can lure more to become CART fans as well. That said, this is CART forum, so if you come here, expected to discuss CART. Thankfully that usually happens here.

I think some people really do need to check their emotions some times (and it's been me in the past). I know it's rampant in the F1 board, but I really don't think it's necessary to throw around names like 'traitor', 'loser' and other names to describe drivers...even if they did move to the IRL...or drive for Dayle Coyne Racing. They made their decisions for their own reasons - in many cases it was they were offered a silver platter for the IRL, while CART was offering nothing... and in that position, if they want to continue their racing careers it's hard to blame them for moving. Most of them weren't poor, but they want to race - somethign that was offered by the IRL, but not CART at the time. And one thing we all know about the driving world, is that if one guy leaves, there are always 100 that want to take his place.

This is a pretty good forum, and I think it's the quality of the forum that keeps most of the extremists out. The CART-zealots you find at other forums can't stand the balanced discussion and the CART-bashers are usually quickly stamped out. I think everyone here representes themselves well too - regardless if you're a 10 year old new to the sport or a retired CART driver. On that subject, I'm also glad the people here question what drivers and other personalities in CART say. One thing I've learned in this business is never to believe anything until it happens - drivers, teams, owners, etc lie for PR purposes (just think of Chris Pook...). So, I'm glad every interview, press release and wild rumour is scrutinized to the max here.

So, to sum it up - carry on (I'm not very good at ending things).

MLM · 29 Dec 2003, 17:39 (Ref:822665)

What Jay said!

"This is a pretty good forum, and I think it's the quality of the forum that keeps most of the extremists out. The CART-zealots you find at other forums can't stand the balanced discussion and the CART-bashers are usually quickly stamped out. I think everyone here representes themselves well too - regardless if you're a 10 year old new to the sport or a retired CART driver. On that subject, I'm also glad the people here question what drivers and other personalities in CART say. One thing I've learned in this business is never to believe anything until it happens - drivers, teams, owners, etc lie for PR purposes (just think of Chris Pook...). So, I'm glad every interview, press release and wild rumour is scrutinized to the max here."

There are OTHER places for zealots and extremists on both sides.
Let's keep this place one where we can discuss, argue, and question the issues without things disintigrating into a 2nd rate version of "The Springer Show" !

macdaddy · 29 Dec 2003, 20:21 (Ref:822780)

You folks are the greatest.

Mags · 29 Dec 2003, 20:22 (Ref:822784)

Good Boy Dov

I won't appologise for getting ragged on, however, I will never back down on my opinions, and we are all entitled to them. But I should back off on the sarcasum, and I will in future. I hope the other 2 have the good nature to also will say "I am Sorry" to you as well...

I don't expect I'll see one, though.

Liz · 29 Dec 2003, 21:39 (Ref:822845)

With all the good news about CCWS coming over the wires these days, there really is no reason to keep on talking about people that are not coming back. Life can only be lived forward.

Let us go forward.

Dov · 29 Dec 2003, 21:43 (Ref:822849)

Btw, Liz, is there anyway I could tap into those wires?

Mags · 29 Dec 2003, 21:46 (Ref:822861)

I was here. I implore, please let it go.

Snrub · 29 Dec 2003, 21:51 (Ref:822872)

The solution to this problem is more bannings and suspensions.

As for being proud of Ford, from a business perspective I don't think they gave up anything to support CART. Indy's a big race, but there are a lot of butts in a lot of seats at CART racs. In fact I think they made the wiser business move to be the sole CART supplyer. On the other hand Cosworth produced one heck of an engine, look at Hornish's performance in 2nd half. Had they gone with Honda and Toyota to the IRL, they would have done something in the IRL they never were able to do in CART: Beat them.

Jay · 29 Dec 2003, 21:55 (Ref:822876)

Dov, anything coming over the various 'wires' gets put all over the web in minutes, so no worries

.

Dov · 29 Dec 2003, 22:08 (Ref:822898)

I know, I'm just having some fun with Mags & Liz....

Mags · 29 Dec 2003, 22:20 (Ref:822916)

I LIKE having fun!!

macdaddy · 29 Dec 2003, 22:24 (Ref:822923)

Hey... That's fine with me!
I love a good party!
But if y'all wanna fight...
TAKE IT OUTSIDE!

Besides, shouldn't the Christmas Spirit should last for more than 24 hours?

Mags · 29 Dec 2003, 22:31 (Ref:822933)

I'm a lover, NOT a fighter!

The Snout · 30 Dec 2003, 02:16 (Ref:823150)

Quote:

Originally posted by Dov
I wanted to apologize to BobbyB & Indycool for SOME of the things I said last night on the "Franchitti" thread. While I still don't like TG and the IRL, I am happy to hear from Indycool and especially BobbyB any time! I would also like to apologize to, Macdaddy. What I REFUSE to apologize for is being a CART fan through and through till the day I die and I will continually go after THOSE people that are hoping (IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!!!) for ChampCars demise. That said, I will try to do it in a more mature fashion!

KEEP ON ROLLIN' CART>>>

Damm Hero. A man who can spit the dummy, throw a few punches, yet still offer a quiet beer to the guys he was fighting with afterwards. "Bartender, a tall frosty for my man here..."

"...and a couple of Indycool and BobbyB too.."

Dov · 30 Dec 2003, 02:37 (Ref:823166)

Quote:

Originally posted by The Snout
Damm Hero. A man who can spit the dummy, throw a few punches, yet still offer a quiet beer to the guys he was fighting with afterwards. "Bartender, a tall frosty for my man here..." "...and a couple of Indycool and BobbyB too.."

Thanks for them kind words, Snout!

Very much appreciated!!!