Verstappen fined, while Barichello goes unpunished.Is it because he drives a Ferrari?

[zetta]

Verstappen got what he deserved (or at least a little bit of what he deserved), being fined $ 15.000 for putting Montoya out of the race. Even if the amount is less than a slap on the wrist for a millionaire F1 driver, it is still a fine.

Barichello, on the other hand, has put 3 drivers out of 3 races with the exact same maneuver, and he has not even been reprimanded by the FIA officials. Is it perhaps because he happens to drive a privileged red car?

[badoer fan]

Yep

[Carla O]

yes... i agree!

[fudge]

It seems that way, the FIA have a strange way with red cars!

[wodonnell]

I'm not trying to defend RB in any way and I fully agree with Niki Lauda that he should be banned but it should be pointed out that although he has collided with 3 drivers so far and ruined their races, they have all continued in the race following the incident.

Thats the only explanation (other than the colour of his car) that I could think of for him not getting a severe penalty.

I did think it VERY odd indeed that Ralf was cautioned about his driving. What was that all about?

[Minardi fan]

This is the third race in a row that I have used a certain expletive beginning with 'w' and ending with 'r' in reference to Barrichello. At Melbourne he hits Frentzen, denying my man of 2nd place. At Sepang I believe he hit Hakkinen. Now he has hit Ralf Schumacher in one of most completely stupid, illogical and ill-thought out overtaking maneouvres I have ever seen.

I believed that Barrichello should have been punished following the Melbourne incident - for it to happen once is not on, 3 times in a row is unforgiveable.

Barrichello deserves to be banned for a number of races as far as I am concerned - just because you drive for Italy's second team does not give you the God-given right to plough into anyone else on the track.

[Guy Goddard]

Agree as well, paint your car red Jos and hit any bugger out there you like, Rubens is driving like a man under pressure, Ralf will be fitting bull bars to his car next race!!

[steve nielsen]

That's one of the reason's the Arrows team is going to apeal against that fine, Jos braked 30 metres earlier than he did in the previous laps, Jaques and Rubens were'nt fined for driving in to a Williams......

Jos is NOT guilty, he thought that a Williams could at least brake as late as an Arrows(because the Williams is a better car), but clearly it did'nt........

alternative raceresult:

1 Montoya
2 Coulthard
3 Schumacher
4 Verstappen
5 Heidfeld
6 Fischicella


what could have been, Jos was talking to his engineers on the radio in the lap before the incident(I think it's going to rain Greg) and the team where prepared to pull him in a few laps later, when it did rain, he would have made 1 stop, have the right tyres and get points, very sad.......

[Speed]

Originally posted by steve nielsen
Jos is NOT guilty, he thought that a Williams could at least brake as late as an Arrows(because the Williams is a better car), but clearly it did'nt........

I can't believe this...

[steve nielsen]

Well, as I said the telemetry CLEARLY shows Jos braked 30(!!!!) metres earlier on that lap, so what's so hard to believe about that??, Arrows is gonna use this telemetry to apeal against the fine given to Jos.

Jos always brakes very late so he braked 30 metres earlier because he thought(very logical I think) that the Williams could brake(at least) just as good as an Arrows.

I think this is the only logical conlusion........

[Quino]

did you see how high he was flying?

If Jos braked 30 metres earlier his normal brakingpoint would be 10 metres from the corner-entrance.

Force of impact, quite something. If Jos did brake earlier and we still have that force of impact, than Juan's supposedly earlier braking must have lead to truckloads of wheellock, given the fact that Montoya travelled at higher speed then Verstappen 1,5 seconds earlier (he passed him quite easily you know).

because he thought(very logical I think) that the Williams could brake(at least) just as good as an Arrows.

Well, if that isnt a failure in judgement, if I ever saw one. I don't care what he thinks about Williamsbrake-system. He needed to act, not think. And he didn't.

p.s.
I never saw Schumacher having any problems with an early braking Williams. And he was trailing at less then 0,5 seconds for some part of the race. How superior is that Arrows at braking?

[steve nielsen]

The telemetry does'nt lie Quino......


BTW 4 times a car hit from the back, 4 times a WILLIAMS.......

[Quino]

Telemetry maybe not.
Arrows Im not so sure of.
Besides, the logic works against him.

He punted off the leading car who claims not to have braked earlier (why would he? he had a clear run into the corner).
He is at fault. Simple, clear fact.

[steve nielsen]

Well why would Arrows apeal against the fine and use the telemetry as evidence if they where lying??

Montoya was blocking his brakes on the laps before the incident, that could be a reason.

PLUS: does the Williams have a difuser that causes cars to be sucked into it, it almost seems like it......(remember the Ralf-Villeneuve incident)

[enemy-ace]

I was thinking the same thing as Quino, after Montoya passed Schumacher it looked to me as if the Ferrari was much better than the Williams under braking in the tight twisty parts of the track. And yet Schumacher never came close to taking him out. Now i'm not making excuses for Barrichello but at least he was in a Race situation and not being lapped. There was no need for Verstappen to try and go as deep into the corner as he did.

[aadpack]

Dear Mr.Quino,


Quote :
---------------------
Telemetry maybe not.
---------------------
What maybe???Its always correct, or do they change it after the race.

Quote :
---------------------
Arrows Im not so sure of.
----------------------
Explain????? Do they change things in order to get out of a fine??

Quote :
----------------------
Besides, the logic works against him.
-----------------------
Which logic??The fact you dislike Verstappen??

Quote :
------------------------
He punted off the leading car who claims not to have braked earlier (why would he? he had a clear run into the corner).
He is at fault. Simple, clear fact.
-------------------------
Why would Verstappen punt of Montoya??
Because he is blind or because he is a bad driver?
Did you speak with al the people who had something todo with this racing accident?

I agree maybe he made a mistake or a judgement error, but Montoya does not go free also.
Please be not so narrowminded.

It`s the same overhere about Rubens, people are talking already to ban him for a few races. Yeah sure.
Villeneuve should be banned to then.And Verstappen also.

I think it`s racing and its al in the game.

[Marshal]

While you can't help but admire the loyalty of some of the Verstappen fans here (and Liz in the thread about Barricello), you seem to be missing the point that they both made pretty rookie errors and caused avoidable accidents.

[Quino]

No, it's wrong to refere to this as a racing-accident.

Sure, it happens during a race, but an incident during a race is not necesseraly a racing-incident.

Jos and Juan weren't racing. Juan was lapping Jos. Jos had no play in that, he just was an obstacle that had to get itself out of the way. He did that fine at first, what happened next was truly out of order.

How could Montoya avoid that? Brake later just to avoid a backmarker he just seconds ago had lapped? Where's the reasoning in that??

those 30 metres are a joke also, I tried to explain that in some other related topic.

[Liz]

The thing i can't believe is that Jos didn't know who was leading the race. Don't his crewmen tell him anything? Or is he so used to seeing the Ferrari leading that he just assumed only red cars have to be let by?

Not only that, but is he not aware that Montoya is a rookie, and does not it make sense that a veteran racer gives a little more consideration to staying clear of a guy who's in his first race on a track? As mama often says, "You are the oldest, you are supposed to know better."

Braking 30 meters sooner? Didn't look to me like Jos braked at all. But then didn't a guy in a red car at Spa go screaming down Pit Road to attack someone for "trying to kill me" by slamming on his brakes, when the telemetry proved he was absolutely flat wrong ... and nobody was fined or punished? Had that not been TGF, I wonder if there wouldn't have been a fine or a suspension. In fact, when TGF rammed two different people off the track in quest of a stolen WDC, why was there no fine or race ban levied? You tell me.

As far as why Jos was fined and Rubens was not, perhaps it was a number of things, including the fact that it was Rubens' home race and this time it was the sensible thing to leave it go. We don't know what was said behind closed doors.

[Jay]

Liz, each driver only cares about who is infront and who is behind them. Whether they are in P1 or P21 is not an issue to them.

I can't see why people can't accept that this was just a racing incident. These things happen, and I think it would be wrong to punish Verstappen. Anyone who thinks that $15,000 will make Verstappen think twice before trying to make a similar move knows absolutely nothing about a racing driver's mentality.

[steve nielsen]

exactly Jay.........

And NO: I did'nt hear Greg Wheeler tell Jos that the race leader was lapping him.....

And Liz: if you look at the beginning of the race you can see Jos fighting with Burti and Fisichella, look how late all 3 of them brake for that same corner, it's a lot later than Juan did...., like I said: why would Arrows apeal against the fine with the telemetry as proof if they where lieing??

[Quino]

Because Tom Walkinshaw is in love with money and there is no way to are gonna give up that $15.000 without a fight. Geezz, talk about pointing out the obvious.

Look at what happened! I for one choose to judge by the facts, not from telemetry-data I haven't seen with my own eyes, certainly not when they aren't conciding with...you guessed it..the hard facts.

ok, supposedly

FACT: Montoya braked at his usual point (or dont you believe Williams statements?)

FACT: Verstappen braked 30 metres ealier than usual

FACT: They collided bigtime, Jos not just nudging the Williams but taking both cars of while the impact took place when both cars were A: still at considerable speed and B: the speeddiffrence was also considerable.

That simply doesn't add up.

Both drivers not braked at their usual point, no the leading one claimed to have braked a MASSIVE 30 metres earlier!

WHY IN THE WORLD COULD THEY HAVE EVER COLLIDED??

1. Why didn't Schumacher crashed into the back of Montoya?
2. What miracle-discs have Arrows mounted on their car? Given their so-called data, Jos usual point of braking would lie around 50 metres or so.
3. Why didn't those miracle-discs perform when Jos had to back off from Montoya?

Even IF Montoya braked earlier then he would have braked not only earlier but also harder (im talking lockup here) because he passed Jos easily 3 seconds before impact.

[Speed]

Ok, Quino, I'm with you on this one. But, now tell us, why do you think he did this stupid maneuver ?.
Conspiracy, dumbness, or what ???

[Guy Goddard]

He punted off the leading car who claims not to have braked earlier (why would he? he had a clear run into the corner).
He is at fault. Simple, clear fact. [/B][/QUOTE]


Im with you all the way on this one Quino and others who support Montoya as the victim, if your driving your car and the bloke in front hits the brakes 400 yards before the stop sign and you hit the back of him..its your fault for being too close and no insurance company will give you the time or day to appeal against it, hence Verstappen is fined..whatever the arguement about the telemetry says you have to go back to basis to the above senerio...too close, misjudged the situation and took out the winner.

[Tristan]

When I saw the title of this thread, and the number of people who'd already posted on it already, I just sighed "ohfor****sake."

Q: why was RB not fined and JV was??

A: Rubens was fighting for position, ie trying to over take. Once a gain he made a **** out of himself by running into the back of someone, but nevertheless, RACING INCIDENT. It jus happens sometimes.
JV on the other hand was being lapped. It is his responsibility to get WELL out of the way of Montoya. If JPM want's to break early, late, never(!) that's up to him. It is up to JV to get WEELL clear. He didn't and ended up running into the race leader. ****. NOT A RACING INCIDENT.