Where were the doctors?/Delay getting to Ralf (merged)

[sawbench]

Ralf goes in the wall and then for over a minute - maybe even TWO, there were no docotrs by his side. What was going on?? I thought it was regulatory to have marshalls at least X seconds from a car, not X minutes.

An then they drive him a 10 mph around the track to the appluase of the crowd (never got that bit, applauding for crashing and not knowing the condition of the guy) to the medical centre.

Only in America.

If you said to them they were slack in any part of their society, they'd be mortified.

They were slack today.

[f1manoz]

I think a lot of us would have been wondering. Ralf was left there by himself for a very long time. You would have thought SOMEONE would have jumped over the pit-wall to see if he was ok.

[Dani Filth]

i was wandering myself .. the wrecked car . in the middle of the track ... camera fixed on that .. it wasn't a pretty sight .. not for me at least ..

[tangoed sparky]

Wasnt there something like this happen last year or the year before at that track?

[Mark Stevens]

Yes, Rubens Barrichello had some sort of failure that sent him slamming sideways into the same bit of wall, I remember watching it on F1 Digital on Sky before it was shut down so I think it was two years ago.

[BSchneiderFan]

It was an appalling lapse on the part of the marshals. It now looks like Ralf is basically OK, but if he'd been badly injured those lost seconds and minutes could have been critical. Poor show, IMS.

[Elio]

Utter disgrace. I watched in complete disbelief.

If such an accident had happened at a UK circuit (with a similar lack of initial response from the driver) then the race would have been stopped and medics would have been on the scene in under 45 seconds in my opinion.

The response from those that run F1 was, in my opinion quite sickening. I hope a full investigation is being conducted.

I would be very interested to hear what some of the marshals who use ten-tenths think about this....

[sawbench]

unfortunately another reason not to put the red flag out is because there had already been a safety car and BCE of No 6 Prince's Gate in London doesn't like the programmes running over. ....
Least of all when in America as that is when it is prime time in Europe. there are already heated words from people within this message board expressing shock and horror that the interviews were not shown. Err... yes? Is that a surprise? Soap operas that pull in 17 - 19 million people all day everyday are not going to wait too long for F1 to mess about.

Can you imagine their similar forum boards complaining at being late by 1 minute for their beloved tat tv?

sad state of affairs for poor old Ralf though - for whom I do not normally wave a flag for...

[Craig]

Absolutely disgusting.

[beefy]

Speaking as a marshal, I was amazed at the way the situation was handled. The medical teams did seem to take an awfully long time to get to the incident. As other posters have said, this could have had very serious consequences. On the other hand, the first rule of marshalling is to ensure your own safety, and there is no way that I would have "hopped over the wall" to deal with the accident. It should have been red flagged immediately, in my opinion.

[Sheila M]

Whilst I agree generally with what is being said on here what we must remember is that the call for the medical teams and safety car comes from the Race Director and the teams then follow the chain of command, which in the States works much differently. What you have to remember is that the Indianapolis safety teams are used to oval racing (and cars going the other way round). If the safety vehicles were parked where they normally are for oval racing then they would have had a long way to go to reach the incident.

The one thing that amazed me though was the fact that the safety car led the cars through the wreckage when to my mind at least, the better option would have been to take them through the pit lane. That way none of the drivers (and especially Michael) would have had the distress of driving past the incident several times and seeing the medical teams dealing with Ralf.

[freud]

Like all, I was completely flabbergasted and sickened by watching that torn Williams lay on the track without anyone attending. The cameras did not show Ralf move and it appeared initially as if he was 'still' inside the car. Yet the next shot was MS's pitstop!! I was watching on the speed channel and I was shocked by the entire episode. Even the commentary team didnt bother to pay attention to Ralf's condition. And then the medical team was just not there although they perfectly understand that the first few minutes are the most critical in such huge accidents. Many times a driver needs an immediate tracheostomy or simply pulling out a prolased tongue. It was nothing less than shocking to see the medical team calmly arriving at the scene after quite some time had passed..

I am not a RS fan, but I had a lot of sympathy for him today. I hope he's back at Magny corse in 2 weeks.

[sawbench]

Sheila M

We are not INDY racing and we ARE going the other way around. They knoew that today and they knew that 5 years ago when F1 first arrived at Indianapolis. 'Much differently' cannot work for all but one of the F1 races on the calendar.

And what has cars going tohe other way around got to do with it? They still can only work on them when they come to a halt and a stationary. can't they?

Not good enough from a world class venue that has across the door "world center of racing" and all that stuff.

The pit lane was close enough for one of the team's perches on the pit wall to lean out an touch Ralf.

One earlier contributor had it on the head. If it were to happen (time taken for medical assistance to Ralf) in the UK, there would be uproar and litigation. And where did the UK learn litigation from? The USA.

[touringlegend]

I hope I don't have to sit and watch anything like that again in my life - I never had to till today.

[Spudgun]

It was absolutely shocking. You could see all was not well, but nothing happened. I just couldn't believe it! In the CART oval races I've seen in the past the incident crews are there practically before the accident finishes!

Those first minutes was a horrible feeling. A feeling that I wished I would never have to feel again.

[chezza]

It did seem and awfully long time for the marshals or med team to reach Ralf but as has been said by Beefy...the marshals have to look after themselves. What if a marshal had run out to attend to Ralf and then the same thing happened with another car and hit them both...thats two people to deal with not one.

Also although F1 cars are fragile they are also very strong so Ralf was in the bast place and although instict is to get out of the car if he could have jumped out it could have been straight into the path of an oncoming car so in a way it was probably good that he couldn't. I'm not saying that I am glad he was injured so please don't read it in that way.

As a marshal my immediate reaction was that I would want to go out to Ralf but it happened on the fastest part of the circuit that has concrete walls on either side of the track...there would be no chance that I would rush out there until all of the cars were under control.

You guys are quick to critise and moan but what would you have done if you were marshalling there?

[Sheila M]

Well said Chezza.

The other thing to remember is that at a GP nothing moves without the say so of the Race Director (and that includes flags as well I believe).

[Craig]

I'd be interested to hear what plans the organisers had put in place for a shunt on this corner. I presume that the yanks were running their usual fast pickup trucks to react to an incident rather than the marshals that we are more familiar with in the UK?

[Sheila M]

Originally posted by Craig Antill
I'd be interested to hear what plans the organisers had put in place for a shunt on this corner. I presume that the yanks were running their usual fast pickup trucks to react to an incident rather than the marshals that we are more familiar with in the UK?

That's what I meant about them being used to stuff going the other way round - if they were parked at their usual place there was no way they could have got to that incident any quicker than they did.

[sawbench]

Chezza

The field had passed by the time RS even came to a halt.

There was one of those back markers - Jaguar or a Minardi I think - trying to miss him.

70 second lap and there was time. race direction had yellows all over the track in short order. What problem of speeding cars?

Brakes on F1 cars can kill 5+ G / 210mph to 70mph in less than 100 metres, they are all fitted with radios from pit wall where the team can see the TV pictures we see at home, radio to driver. danger alert, and job done.

They were on Senna in no time, and they were on Barrichello on the Friday at Imola 1994 in no time - and he was the one who had his sinuses filling up with blood so he could not breath. they tipped him up in no time. saved his life. No one talks about how close RB came to death that day in the Jordan.

At times, marshalling needs to be done by wives and families. They'd leap the wall and stabilise him. stuff the risk. they are the best drivers in the world out there. they can handle it.

Can you imagine what Mr Schumacher was thnking at home watching on tv???

I repeat, I am not a RS fan in any shape or form, but I was not impressed. Get the clock on it and time the delay with your video.

Blundell summed it up - it was too long.

Have you seen the video of him going into the wall in Rio Indy circuit when he was injured.? Holy wotsit. un real. He knows. Not any of us.....

[Craig]

Yes, Sheila, but surely the organisers took this fact into account when planning for this sort of shunt? If not then there really is no argument - the delay was a disgrace. If they had not planned for this eventuality then the race should have been red-flagged immediately.

[Fan]

I have to disagree Chezza. There was a safety car out before anyone went to see him. The worst lack of response I've ever seen in 15 years of racing. If I was Ralf I would go ballistic...

[Sheila M]

Originally posted by sawbench

At times, marshalling needs to be done by wives and families. They'd leap the wall and stabilise him. stuff the risk.

Really? You are obviously not a marshal otherwise you wouldn't even think of saying this.

[Sheila M]

Originally posted by Craig Antill
Yes, Sheila, but surely the organisers took this fact into account when planning for this sort of shunt? If not then there really is no argument - the delay was a disgrace. If they had not planned for this eventuality then the race should have been red-flagged immediately.

I agree with you Craig - the delay was a disgrace. My husband works on rescue units and I am also a marshal. It was apparent to us that Ralf was unconscious and we couldn't understand why the race wasn't red flagged. I don't think we can blame the American marshals or safety crews or Sid Watkins for not being there quicker. As I've said before, all movements are controlled by the Race Director and he must take full responsibility for anything that happens (or doesn't) during a race.

[freud]

Originally posted by Craig Antill
Yes, Sheila, but surely the organisers took this fact into account when planning for this sort of shunt? If not then there really is no argument - the delay was a disgrace. If they had not planned for this eventuality then the race should have been red-flagged immediately.

Exactly!

It remains a mystery as why the race wasnt red-flagged! With all that debris on such a critical part of the circuit and a driver lying motionless.. the race should've been red-flagged then and there.

Sheila M., No one's blaming Sid Watkins. After all the man couldnt've put in wings and flied to Ralf's car.