Lant RTs

[Peter McKinley]

I have a Lant or it could be a Ralt RT2 which i hillclimb ,sprint and race in Ireland. From what i know it originated in South Africa manufactured y Mel Lahner of Lant Cars. It has the large fuel cell which appears to be original ,not modified afterwards. It is wide track 62" and has conventional rocker beam suspension at the front with vertical inboard Koni's. It last came from the England where it had been fitted with a BDG. Prior to that it is supposed to have been in the far east where it was raced by an Indian Prince. It may have had a Mazda Rotary engine fitted but not sure. All the suspension uprights are original Ralt mag castings The car has an identity stamp on the top left of the front alloy bulkhead with RR 8304 stamped on it. Someone removed some stamped letters or numbers located before the RR with a rotary burr. Anyone out there have any ideas or comments as to where this car has been since the 80's

[allenbrown]

Have you read the Ralt RT2 thread?

(Which is now here :- http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=80949 - JT)

Allen

[Peter McKinley]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Have you read the Ralt RT2 thread?

Allen

Yes read thread, Lant cars seem to be info thin nobody seems to know much about them

peter

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Peter McKinley

I have a Lant or it could be a Ralt RT2 which i hillclimb ,sprint and race in Ireland. From what i know it originated in South Africa manufactured y Mel Lahner of Lant Cars. It has the large fuel cell which appears to be original ,not modified afterwards. It is wide track 62" and has conventional rocker beam suspension at the front with vertical inboard Koni's. It last came from the England where it had been fitted with a BDG. Prior to that it is supposed to have been in the far east where it was raced by an Indian Prince. It may have had a Mazda Rotary engine fitted but not sure. All the suspension uprights are original Ralt mag castings The car has an identity stamp on the top left of the front alloy bulkhead with RR 8304 stamped on it. Someone removed some stamped letters or numbers located before the RR with a rotary burr. Anyone out there have any ideas or comments as to where this car has been since the 80's

Isn't this the car John Payne used to sprint?

[Chris Townsend]

The first Lant made its debut at Killarney, 8,5,82 driven by Trevor van Rooyen who used it for the rest of the 82 season. A second car was completed towards the end of the season and raced by Roy Klomfass at Kyalami 4.9.82.

There may be significantly more Ralt in the first car than the second:
Lahner bought an RT4 new from Ralt 16.10.81 and may have used this as the basis of the first car. [The RT4 that van Rooyen races in 1981 before the Lant appears is said to be an ex Tilanus car, so might be RT2 [154] rather than this car [RT4 -272]

The Ralt sales records obtained by Adam Ferrington have tub, gearbox and fuel cell numbers so we might be able to get some kind of handle on this.

Ian Hebblewhite would be a good person to talk to about the car's history.

Chris

[IANHEB]

Peter,
As far as I know only one Lant was exported from SA after F2 finished here in 1986.
Can we start with the number on the FT200 case please, either the usual stamped Hewland number or an engraved Lant 00.. number just inboard of the sideplate ?.
Regards
Ian

[Peter McKinley]

Gearbox casing number is FT.200.1611. The original fuel cell was replaced 3 years ago but have hung onto the original its identity is as follows:-

MARSTON Wolverhampton England
Contractors Part No E4 55 0110
Me part No RT 614 Issue A
Serial No JN 39 254
Issue Stamp Jm 20
Date of Cure 3Q/82

[Peter McKinley]

I do believe it was sprinted in the UK but by whom ,i have no idea. Some folks in ireland have said to me that it was a known car when in the uk

[Peter McKinley]

Originally Posted by IANHEB

Peter,
As far as I know only one Lant was exported from SA after F2 finished here in 1986.
Can we start with the number on the FT200 case please, either the usual stamped Hewland number or an engraved Lant 00.. number just inboard of the sideplate ?.
Regards
Ian

What are the definitive differences between an Ralt / Lant RT4 and an Atlantic chassis.
Regards
Peter

[Peter McKinley]

Originally Posted by Peter McKinley

What are the definitive differences between an Ralt / Lant RT4 and an Atlantic chassis.
Regards
Peter

Ian
I Have posted gearbox numbers and fuel cell numbers above

regards
Peter

[Peter McKinley]

Brousing through the website http://www.britishsprint.org/history...ve/1994res.htm i notice that both in 1994 and 1996 John Payne campaigned a 1.5 Lant-Ford BDA RT4 and in 2.0 Lt form in 1996. This probably is the same car. When brought into ireland by Cyril Orme-Lynch it had a 2.0Lt BDG, replaced by a Ford 205 metal block Warrior Headed engine. most likely same car. The fuel cell numbers dating the cell as 3rd quarter 1982 would seem to suggest that the Chassis designation RR 8304 may be legitimate. ?

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Peter McKinley

Brousing through the website http://www.britishsprint.org/history...ve/1994res.htm i notice that both in 1994 and 1996 John Payne campaigned a 1.5 Lant-Ford BDA RT4 and in 2.0 Lt form in 1996. This probably is the same car. When brought into ireland by Cyril Orme-Lynch it had a 2.0Lt BDG, replaced by a Ford 205 metal block Warrior Headed engine. most likely same car. The fuel cell numbers dating the cell as 3rd quarter 1982 would seem to suggest that the Chassis designation RR 8304 may be legitimate. ?

Peter, the car John Payne campaigned with 1.5 & 2.0 litre egines IS the car sold to Cyril Orme-Lynch.
We are just waiting for the chassis number to be confirmed before we add it to the database.

[IANHEB]

Peter,
Your gearbox (1611) and the next one (1612) were invoiced to Lant Cars SA early in 1983.This ties in with two new "RR 83 's" that are entered for Dave Charlton and A.N.Other from April 83.There was at least 1,but probably 2, of the RR82 's used during 1982 so I would say that your car is the fourth Lant built.
There are 2 other complete cars still here .I need to look at them carefully and check for tub/g.box numbers before commenting further on your car.I know one has Ralt suspension and the other Lant.
I do not know of any difference between the Ralt and Lant tubs as far as design is concerned.I wonder if any other Ralt owners can confirm that the AM number is stamped in the same place that yours has been ground off ?
Regards
Ian

[Peter McKinley]

Originally Posted by IANHEB

Peter,
Your gearbox (1611) and the next one (1612) were invoiced to Lant Cars SA early in 1983.This ties in with two new "RR 83 's" that are entered for Dave Charlton and A.N.Other from April 83.There was at least 1,but probably 2, of the RR82 's used during 1982 so I would say that your car is the fourth Lant built.
There are 2 other complete cars still here .I need to look at them carefully and check for tub/g.box numbers before commenting further on your car.I know one has Ralt suspension and the other Lant.
I do not know of any difference between the Ralt and Lant tubs as far as design is concerned.I wonder if any other Ralt owners can confirm that the AM number is stamped in the same place that yours has been ground off ?
Regards
Ian

I cant post any photos of car or its details. If someone wants me to e-mail photos I can do so easily. can quite easily take digital images crop to detail and post. Thank you all so much for all your contribuitions and info so far. Does the AM stamp indicate Arch Motors. Incidentally my car broke its rear extended aluminium boxes, and was fully repaired and rebuilt by Gomme Metal Developments in Woking Surrey England shortly after i bought the car. The cause of failure was that the top cam box to rear of tub connector plate had been ommitted during engine change over. Ron Tauranac visited Gomme Metal Developments to have a look at the car, apparently he only lived up the road. Thr roll hoop was also extended down further onto the main side tubs as it was felt the original rool hoop location etc was marginal.

[Peter McKinley]

Info originally posted by dereklola indicates that Mel Lahner purchased RT2-152 or the Toleman RT2-1 which went to south africa where i presume it is the tub that was stripped and copied as indicated by IAN HEBBLEWHITE. If it was copied ,since the fuel cell is larger in the RT2 tubs does this imply that the Lants made in SA are RT2 tub copies. The fuel cell in my Lant has a full height wall from the floor of the tub to the top plate of the tub which has the roll hoop mounted on it. It is different to any RT4 cars i have seen which have a much smaller fuel cell perhaps only half the height of the Lant cell.
Front and rear suspension is by rocker arm

[Peter McKinley]

Made an error in chassis number the identity marking is RR 8302 not RR 8304 .

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by Peter McKinley

... The car has an identity stamp on the top left of the front alloy bulkhead with RR 8304 stamped on it. Someone removed some stamped letters or numbers located before the RR with a rotary burr ...

Peter

Could you post a picture of the identity stamp? Or email one to me (allen@oldracingcars.com) if you're not sure how to post. It would be very helpful to see the area that was scrubbed clean as well as the stamped number.

Thanks

Allen

[Peter McKinley]

Allen,

I will send you pictures of the markings and their location relative to the front of the tub.

regards

Peter

[allenbrown]

And here they are "photos of ID markings and their location on the tub front bulkhead":





Thanks Peter

Allen

[dereklola]

Originally Posted by Peter McKinley

Info originally posted by dereklola indicates that Mel Lahner purchased RT2-152 or the Toleman RT2-1 which went to south africa where i presume it is the tub that was stripped and copied as indicated by IAN HEBBLEWHITE. If it was copied ,since the fuel cell is larger in the RT2 tubs does this imply that the Lants made in SA are RT2 tub copies. The fuel cell in my Lant has a full height wall from the floor of the tub to the top plate of the tub which has the roll hoop mounted on it. It is different to any RT4 cars i have seen which have a much smaller fuel cell perhaps only half the height of the Lant cell.
Front and rear suspension is by rocker arm

Peter - sorry to be so late coming to the party. Here's my version of Ralt tubs in the fuel cell area based on my 1979 RT2, 1980 RT4 and looking at several other RT2s, RT4s and RT5s.

You are correct that the RT2 has a longer fuel cell box than the RT4 - maybe 4" or so [I keep measuring it but never filing the info]. I don't have actual measurements but the RT2 cell probably held 16-18 gallons and the RT4 maybe 11-12. Otherwise the RT2 and early RT4 tubs are the same - the fuel box front, also the seat back, was a flat sheet from the floor to the top where the roll hoop mounts althought the front mount was a thick 'bracket' added in front of this straight, flat sheet. Later RT4s had the top front area vertical, dispensing with that thick bracket and increasing the gallonage slightly.

All RT2 and RT4s had the 'high' fuel cell box described above. All RT5s, and I presume the European RT3s, that I've seen had a 'low' box finishing at the tub sidewall height. I've never seen a 'low' one on an RT4.

Hope that helps. Derek

[dereklola]

Originally Posted by Peter McKinley

I have a Lant or it could be a Ralt RT2 which i hillclimb ,sprint and race in Ireland. From what i know it originated in South Africa manufactured y Mel Lahner of Lant Cars. It has the large fuel cell which appears to be original ,not modified afterwards. It is wide track 62" and has conventional rocker beam suspension at the front with vertical inboard Koni's. It last came from the England where it had been fitted with a BDG. Prior to that it is supposed to have been in the far east where it was raced by an Indian Prince. It may have had a Mazda Rotary engine fitted but not sure. All the suspension uprights are original Ralt mag castings The car has an identity stamp on the top left of the front alloy bulkhead with RR 8304 stamped on it. Someone removed some stamped letters or numbers located before the RR with a rotary burr. Anyone out there have any ideas or comments as to where this car has been since the 80's

Peter
I'm intrigued that your car is red. The only other Lant I have pics of was raced in Ireland realatively recently and was white. So maybe there really are two! Although I agree paint is cheap and easy.

When I met Bernard Tilanus a few years ago he told me that the first Lant was made from the remains of RT2-152 which was bought by Mel Larner from the Toleman team. He bought it for Bernard to drive in the ZA series. They installed a Mazda rotary engine - I have pics if you want them. They were both keen on Mazda engines so maybe one or more Lants had one. After Bernard crashed the car Mel stripped it, flattened the tub panels for patterns, copied the castings etc etc and started making parts for a sizeable number of Lants [20? 30? don't know]. Unfortunately many of these parts 'went missing' when moving to a new workshop effectively stopping the program. I too have heard that one went to the Middle East but I have nothing to substantiate that. Ian Hebblewhite has reported that one of the cars and some more parts are still known, or believed, to be in Mel's warehouse in ZA but he's not interested in disturbing things to go look.

Now that's just what I was told. Chris Townsend knows a lot more about old race cars than I ever will and he researches much more thoroughly. He also just mentioned that Mel bought an RT4 in 1981. And apparently only two Lants have known racing history in their time. So who knows - maybe, just maybe, those two Lants did originate to a greater or lesser extent from the one RT2 and the one RT4. I not saying the planned production Lant story is not true - just that there might other sides to it as well.

I'll see if I can post the white Lant pics. - Derek

By the way - I doubt if your car is an RT2 - I think the history of all six [not five] RT2s is now well established - three currently in the US/Canada, one in Germany, one now in Australia and 152 crashed in South Africa.

[IANHEB]

I did manage to look at one of the remaining Lants here in S.A.There are no numbers in the area of the front bulkhead as shown in the picture above.The gearbox casing (local casting) is marked 'Lant 003' where a Hewland FT200 would normally have its number stamped.
Regards
Ian

[andrewmacdonald]

I was at Aldo Scribante in Port Elizabeth in August 1984 and there were at least three Lant's entered that raced in the Formula Atlantic race.

One was driven by Mel Lahner's son, Wayne, the second by Wayne Taylor. Cannot remember who drove the third, as TBR was in the DAW car already and Bernard Tilanus was driving the March that I think Graham Dripsbury had compaigned the year before. Ian Scheckter was in the Gunston March 842 or 832.

I also recall there being about 20 tubs at Mel Lahners factory near Vanderbijlpark when the guy from Gunston sold all the foreign cars back to Europe at the end of the 1985 season.

[Chris Townsend]

Andrew

Welcome to the forum and thanks for that info. I'm still trying to work out what happened to the RT4 that the Ralt records show as sold to Lahner. Did this simply end up as a jig model or did it get incorporated into a Lant?

On a wider note, if you have any photos or programmes from South African Atlantic/F2 Rotary series, I'd be happy to hear from you. Reporting of the South African series really tailed off in UK press after 1977, and the local press isn't always that much help

Chris

[andrewmacdonald]

I have been through some old South African race programmes I have and the most number of cars entered for a race was on 1 November 1986 with four to be driven by Trevor van Rooyen, Tony Martin, Alan Dunlop and Billy Maloney. This was the race when Wayne Taylor and Bernard Tilanus fought out for the championship. I think there were only about 10 cars that started and some were Can-am's. TVR was entered for many rounds that year but never actually raced. It seems that year often cars were entered but never turned up, in total there were only two cars in the championship and about 6 regular open wheel cars, the rest were Can-Am's. By this stage most of the European cars had been returned to Europe. The only car from that era still definately in the country is the championship winning Ralt RT4 of Wayne Taylor.

My previous post about Scribante was correct, the cars entered were to be driven by Wayne Lahner, Matt Keyser (who went on to design the Matt-a-DAW Formula Ford and Formula GTi cars) and Roy Klomfass (he never raced and was replaced by Wayne Taylor.) That is the Roy Klomfass who took Rory Byrne to Europe in the 1970's to help in his Formual Ford campaign, I think the rest is history about Rory.

In these later programmes the Lant's are entered as RR and a year number, such as 1985 when it was a RR85, although I am not sure what updates were made. The Lant's entered for the first Kyalami round on 29 january 1983 were entered for Dave Charlton and Wayne Lahner in Lant 83A's.