[Team] Racing Point: What now for Force India

[Peter Mallett]

With this news it seems that the team principle is somewhat financially stretched.

Thoughts?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...aid-loans.html

[old man]

For Sale: F1 team, excellent staff and prospects, guaranteed great fun, one careful owner.

[BSchneiderFan]

Not a good sign. Who might swoop in to save the team if Mallya goes under?

[Peter Mallett]

I was more thinking of the "disrepute" side of this. If he is under criminal sanction, would that impact the Formula 1 rules?

[chillibowl]

i thought F1 rules required the involvement of corrupt billionaires?

but seriously, the teams seems well funded, has always been competitive, more so then many of would have guessed, and people seem to be getting paid on time. and really Mallya is a figurehead for the team. to be honest im not sure what his contributions as Team Principle even are.

when they first started out i guess i would have said Mallya is an integral part of the team so his personal behaviour, good or bad, reflected on the team's image.

but based on their performance over the years, i dont really even associate the team with Mallya anymore and am willing to look at his negative press as a poor reflection on Mallya himself and not as a negative reflection on the team.

so i guess i dont see how his 'disrepute' transfers onto the team. obviously the F1 media will make the connection whenever they can but as a fan i feel like the team has earned the right to stand as a separate entity i could really care less who the owner (part owner) is...if that even makes sense.

[Mike Harte]

The problem is that the two principal shareholders in the teams both owe huge sums of money to the banks in India. Regardless of what Mallya has said in his press releases, he skipped out of India just ahead of the process to have his passport seized, a fate that befell his fellow shareholder, Roy. And he is in prison until he pays something like a billion dollars into the court.

Other reports are stating that the Indian Attorney General is to apply for an extradition order to be served on Mallya, no matter where he is.

[chillibowl]

what can i say about the politics of India! the Attorney General may want to force his return but the ruling BJP party of India are seemingly still ok with him standing as a member of their parliament and who allegedly helped with his flight from the country in the first place.

its their mess imo and not an issue for F1. anyways just my opinion.

[chillibowl]

i should add that im not saying any of this in support of Mallya. i think he is the worst sort of person. i just think that an f1 sanction hurts the team more than it hurts Mallya.

on a lighter note, why choose the UK to flee to? he basically picked the one country in the world to hide in that would be compelled to honour an extradition request made by the Indian Government.

seems like another poor choice in a series of poor life choices he has made!

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I was more thinking of the "disrepute" side of this. If he is under criminal sanction, would that impact the Formula 1 rules?

Hang on Peter I will give Bernie and Flávio a call and get back to you !

[Peter Mallett]

A point well made.

[JeremySmith]

Always good to see you Peter ...

[wnut]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

i should add that im not saying any of this in support of Mallya. i think he is the worst sort of person. i just think that an f1 sanction hurts the team more than it hurts Mallya.

on a lighter note, why choose the UK to flee to? he basically picked the one country in the world to hide in that would be compelled to honour an extradition request made by the Indian Government.

seems like another poor choice in a series of poor life choices he has made!

How many Union Carbide executives were extradited from the UK to India for the Bhopal gas disaster?

[Armco Bender]

I wouldn't imagine much of Mallya's own personal fortune props up Force India.
His business empire appears to have been imploding backwards for many years,but he still has plenty of real estate around the world to bolt to.
I see the prosecutors are now talking money laundering,which is getting a bit more serious.
Even title sponsor Sahara seems to be going from crisis to crisis.
Another bit of interesting reading....http://www.dnaindia.com/money/report...-loans-2186270

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by wnut

How many Union Carbide executives were extradited from the UK to India for the Bhopal gas disaster?

my knowledge of the incident is limited but wasnt Union Carbide and American company and the US protecting the executives?

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by old man

For Sale: F1 team, excellent staff and prospects, guaranteed great fun, one careful owner.

Is Mr Jordan the careful owner?

[wnut]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

my knowledge of the incident is limited but wasnt Union Carbide and American company and the US protecting the executives?

I think you are right Chilli, got a wire crossed, remember something about Ireland which is clearly wrong!

[djinvicta]

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

I wouldn't imagine much of Mallya's own personal fortune props up Force India.
His business empire appears to have been imploding backwards for many years,but he still has plenty of real estate around the world to bolt to.
I see the prosecutors are now talking money laundering,which is getting a bit more serious.
Even title sponsor Sahara seems to be going from crisis to crisis.
Another bit of interesting reading....http://www.dnaindia.com/money/report...-loans-2186270

Good Lord! I had to read this twice and still got "lost" on the way.
I wonder who the brilliant accountants are that work for Force India?
I think he will wriggle and wriggle, but are Aston Martin waiting for it to go under?

[old man]

Amazing piece

One can understand a certain reluctance on the part of AM to get involved!

Now, let me think, what was DR before he started rallying?

[Peter Mallett]

The FI problems don't seem to be going away.

https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2016...ed-for-mallya/

[BSchneiderFan]

This is all very sad and unedifying for all concerned. Force India have come close to breakthroughs on several occasions but have never quite made it. I hope their long-term future isn't threatened by the warrant for Mallya. They'd be a great proposition for someone who wanted to buy a going concern in F1, but people with pockets that deep are few and far between these days. The worst-case scenario is that they go to the wall.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

The FI problems don't seem to be going away.

https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2016...ed-for-mallya/

is there a typo in that article?

the guy (or his failed companies) apparently have around 1 billion US in outstanding loans/debt but this court has issued an arrest warrant over a proper accounting of only 135 thousand of that debt obligation?

there is something here i am not understanding...which no doubt is the internal politics of India.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

is there a typo in that article?

the guy (or his failed companies) apparently have around 1 billion US in outstanding loans/debt but this court has issued an arrest warrant over a proper accounting of only 135 thousand of that debt obligation?

there is something here i am not understanding...which no doubt is the internal politics of India.

I wonder if the warrant over the relatively minor sum is just the tool at hand to get what they want done. In that it might be small, but it might also have legs. Sort of like regardless of how many murderous activities Al Capone was involved in he ultimately went to jail over... tax evasion... because that was the best case they had against him. And I am not saying Vijay Mallya is comparable to Al Capone!

Richard

[Mike Harte]

According to press reports, the warrant has been issued over a sum that equates to about £45 million , about US$65 million. As you say, there are allegedly billions of loans that are suspect or are suspected of being a part of money laundering.

The arrest warrant is non-bail able, and the authorities are currently preparing extradition papers to be presented in the UK courts in due course, plus an Interpol warrant. This could mean that the two majority shareholders of Sahara Force India could well be in prison, Roy already being behind bars.

[Paradise City]

There's a lot of F1 bigwigs either in prison or flirting with prison. Haas is another old lag. If Eccelstone wasn't a billionaire he'd probably be seeing the inside of a Bavarian dungeon himself. Funny old sport this.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I wonder if the warrant over the relatively minor sum is just the tool at hand to get what they want done. In that it might be small, but it might also have legs....

that makes sense...a means of forcing his return so they can work on building a larger stronger case once he is in the country.

given the size of the debt and the level of corruption in India, for things to change guys like Mallya and Roy should be held accountable for their actions.

more relevant to this forum though, and as BSchneiderFan said, 'This is all very sad and unedifying for all concerned'.