parity issues.......anyone?

Pro Racer · 24 Jun 2007, 08:45 (Ref:1945344)

seems i was right in that Walkinshaw didn't have an advantage they just had their a-game on and Ford didn't, now that Ford have their a-game on do we think we can lay the advantage/parity issues to bed.

TSR · 24 Jun 2007, 08:53 (Ref:1945350)

What one FORD team win equals the parity against a 4 car team. NOT.

Monaro · 24 Jun 2007, 09:18 (Ref:1945364)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro Racer

seems i was right in that Walkinshaw didn't have an advantage they just had their a-game on and Ford didn't, now that Ford have their a-game on do we think we can lay the advantage/parity issues to bed.

No they still need to slow the Fords down.Take out the WP cars and there are no Commodores at the front

Pro Racer · 24 Jun 2007, 09:36 (Ref:1945373)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSR

What one FORD team win equals the parity against a 4 car team. NOT.

yes one Ford team won but they had the FPR cars both early on and Frosty stuck with them in both races and the DJR car of Davison.

Venom XR · 24 Jun 2007, 09:54 (Ref:1945385)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monaro

No they still need to slow the Fords down.Take out the WP cars and there are no Commodores at the front

Yeah, those BOC cars are rocket ships eh?

STEALTHY · 24 Jun 2007, 09:59 (Ref:1945387)

I'll buy into this.

Yes something needs to be done. Theres 2 holden teams doing well (well one according to some) and then theres about 15 fords (ok maybe a little eggsagerated).

We gave them an extra 20 inches of front spoiler, changed to their suspension, and their block, what more do they want? Or should all the Holdens just pull over and stop.

Pro Racer · 24 Jun 2007, 10:35 (Ref:1945421)

well according to Murph (INDY 2004 where he said in the press conference "we're not going to pull over and let you win") if Ambrose were sitll here he would think they should.

stmorri · 24 Jun 2007, 11:12 (Ref:1945440)

Too little, too late......looking at the pointscore, the championship is over as far as I'm concerned. Did you see the end of race 3? HSV/HRT line astern, not competing for placings just accumulating points. I recorded it, went to the football. Watched it later on fast forward, you get through all the adds and processional stuff quicker that way......still, there's always a chance at Bathurst I suppose and next year.

James63 · 24 Jun 2007, 11:20 (Ref:1945444)

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

We gave them an extra 20 inches of front spoiler, changed to their suspension, and their block, what more do they want?

??? Huh ???

Ford had their front splitter cut this year, the holden got new heads similar to the fords when the VY came out and got front suspension parts similar to the ford also when the VY came out.

STEALTHY · 24 Jun 2007, 11:32 (Ref:1945451)

Quote:

Originally Posted by James63

??? Huh ???

Ford had their front splitter cut this year, the holden got new heads similar to the fords when the VY came out and got front suspension parts similar to the ford also when the VY came out.

Thats exactly my point

Slowed down the VY becuse it was a better car. Now lets do the same to the VE.

And here i was thinking the rest of the field should have to go faster, not make the guys who prepair good cars go slower

Nascar anyone?

Driver TBA · 24 Jun 2007, 11:39 (Ref:1945454)

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

Thats exactly my point

Slowed down the VY becuse it was a better car. Now lets do the same to the VE.

And here i was thinking the rest of the field should have to go faster, not make the guys who prepair good cars go slower

Nascar anyone?

How was the VY slowed?

The BF was nobbled to match the VE and the BA banned, yet the VY has'nt had any adjustment.

tickin · 24 Jun 2007, 12:19 (Ref:1945473)

i think you'll find that the VY was changed to the fords parts not to slow them as you seem to think but as part of the parity to even them up and the ford parts (i.e. front wishbone suspension etc..) were better than the commodores eqivalent parts (i.e. macpherson struts).
shouldnt have been done IMO.. i think little things like that should stay as they are on the road going versions.. but thats the reason behind it.
I really think people should look into things and find out what they are talking about BEFORE they start typing in here.!!! they dont realise how stupid they make themselves look.

I think the real question is why are HSV and HDT teams the only holden teams going so good???? next best is like 15 spots behind and its not even a VE... the 2 or 3 VY's seem to alwasy be infront of the other VE's.....

SSbaby · 24 Jun 2007, 12:51 (Ref:1945480)

Just proves the point that the Fords weren't slow at a fast circuit. Definitely had the mid corner speed advantage whereas the TWR Holdens seemed to get good power down.

The parity issue is a non-issue as the 888 team proved they looked after the rears better and therefore were quicker than the even the TWR cars... which most whingers considered not possible.

**GTRMagic** · 24 Jun 2007, 22:11 (Ref:1945795)

The Awesome Foursome are like carriages on a train, each somehow connected to one another. It is only Mr Skaife with his Winton rally cross round that keeps him behind Mr Whincup for a 1-2-3-4 in the series

The damping quality on the Awesome Foursome is amazing.... bumps dont seem to upset their stability.. while on some other cars, a bump kicks them 4' sideways.....

There is always more to this than meets the eye.... but the season is over for Ford.... its only really race wins (Bathurst!!) left to play for this year

stmorri · 24 Jun 2007, 22:42 (Ref:1945828)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

.... but the season is over for Ford.... its only really race wins (Bathurst!!) left to play for this year

Exactly GTR......it's all too little, too late......and the season is only half over......they are using the wrong parity formula. There should be an ongoing formula of race by race or round by round adjustments. But people won't wake up!

Dazz · 24 Jun 2007, 22:51 (Ref:1945830)

Why should winners be slowed down?

888 has proved that once they have found out how to get the most from the cars they are just as fast as the HRT/Toll cars, not to mention DJR and FPR being almost there as well.

If a team comes out at the beginning of the year and does well, THAT'S HOW YOU GET AHEAD AND WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP!

Is this supposed to be a competition or what? What do people actually want to watch?

Sounds like some people want to see 32 different race winners and everyone finish the season on the same points????

Any driver who can consistently finish on the podium is going to rack up some serious points, and good on them. You never know when the luck may run out though so to say it's over is a bit harsh.

And if it is then good luck to those who have their act together.

When talking about this parity thing, has anyone questioned why Jason Bright can get his BJR Falcon to the complete other end of the grid?

I personally have always thought the car parity in the Blueprint era has been very close, but I'll argue until I'm blue in the face that some teams and especially drivers just do a better job and you should not punish that.

Dazz · 24 Jun 2007, 22:59 (Ref:1945837)

Quote:

Originally Posted by stmorri

Exactly GTR......it's all too little, too late......and the season is only half over......they are using the wrong parity formula. There should be an ongoing formula of race by race or round by round adjustments. But people won't wake up!

So by that Lowndes should be penalised next round for himself and his team doing a good job? Why????

If Hidden Valley is anything to go by we could be in for an absolute cracker for the next half of the season with the 888 and FPR cars slowly eating into the red cars lead in the championship.

It's all supposition but imagine if Frosty hadn't been taken out of race one and Davison hadn't been sent to the rear for race two ans Winchup hadn't had problems? They would have been a serious threat and massively increased the pressure on the red and orange cars who did well overall but by ne means had an advantage in race pace over the fast Fords.

I don't know about anyone else but I'm looking forward to seeing the Ford guys really take it up to the leading Holdens and then we'll really see some action.

mmciau · 24 Jun 2007, 23:17 (Ref:1945845)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

The Awesome Foursome are like carriages on a train, each somehow connected to one another. It is only Mr Skaife with his Winton rally cross round that keeps him behind Mr Whincup for a 1-2-3-4 in the series

The damping quality on the Awesome Foursome is amazing.... bumps dont seem to upset their stability.. while on some other cars, a bump kicks them 4' sideways.....

There is always more to this than meets the eye.... but the season is over for Ford.... its only really race wins (Bathurst!!) left to play for this year

Yet Lowndes' car with empty tanks and mushy tyres is not catchable.
That car is so well balanced at race-end that nothing is able to run it down.
I often wonder if the CPS early for tyres is a disadvantage to marginal cars.

Mike

SSbaby · 25 Jun 2007, 01:21 (Ref:1945911)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

The damping quality on the Awesome Foursome is amazing.... bumps dont seem to upset their stability.. while on some other cars, a bump kicks them 4' sideways.....

After many years... you've only just realised? HRT/HSV cars have always been well damped. They pioneered damper development long ago with sophisticated in-house machines.

Therefore, it's not a brand parity issue, it's a team that works more cleverly than others that gives them the deserved edge. For that, people wish to punish them.

Forget that Lowndes and Whincup were clearly the fastest cars on the weekend at Hidden Valley, only the 4 car team stopped them from achieving a 1-2.

You lose the plot quickly GTR.

Pro Racer · 25 Jun 2007, 01:37 (Ref:1945917)

i think the rest of the year will beone of the best yet cliche i know but i think it could be and i rarely say it, 888, FPR, DJR are right on the back of the Wlky's even passing a couple and Tasman look to be getting a bit quicker JR seemed to hang on the back of the main pack at the start but would drop off on old tyres and drop a few positions and thats what JR and Murph have been complaining about all year once they get that sorted they should be around that pack and the GRM cars on their day are proving to be on the pace abit.

goosel · 25 Jun 2007, 02:20 (Ref:1945927)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSR

What one FORD team win equals the parity against a 4 car team. NOT.

Ford could win every single race left in the season, yet there would still be a parity issue in your eyes, TSR....

STEALTHY · 25 Jun 2007, 02:28 (Ref:1945929)

Quote:

Originally Posted by goosel

Ford could win every single race left in the season, yet there would still be a parity issue in your eyes, TSR....

I'm sure if you sift through the posts, he was probably winging parity even when Ambrose was dominating

stmorri · 25 Jun 2007, 02:30 (Ref:1945932)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dazz

Why should winners be slowed down?

Because at the beginning of this season there were changes to the Fords aero that has taken 1/2 a season for them to get on top of and we are now stuck with a championship that is already decided. HRT/HSV will probably be accumulators for the remainder of the season.

stmorri · 25 Jun 2007, 02:44 (Ref:1945938)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dazz

So by that Lowndes should be penalised next round for himself and his team doing a good job? Why????

You're only applying the theory to one race. If you apply the theory to the championship Lowndes may still have a chance to win as his major opposition would be carrying more ballast than him. As it is now he has no chance for the championship......that's why.

Peregrine · 25 Jun 2007, 02:49 (Ref:1945941)

The NEW VE still has plenty of development left in it and is visiting each track for the first time ever this year. As such they are going to occasionally get the setup wrong (or at least take a whole meet to get it up to speed) This is why TWPG is running better than the rest of the Holdens as they have 4 sets of data to dial the car in. To me it is obvious that the VE fully sorted will kill the BF Mk2 as it has already done so at Eastern Creek which was previously a "Ford track" as is Hidden Valley. The weekends results simply illustrate that the TWPG guys took a little longer than normal to dial in the new VE which enabled 888 to get a good result at a track they were known to be very strong previously. Hold on to your hats when they start hitting the sweet spot e.g. Barbagallo where they were up to 0.5 seconds a lap faster than the next best, or when they race at the venues a second time in 2008.......

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