|
|||||||||||
|
|||||||||||
15 Nov 2014, 21:05 (Ref:3475153) | #1 | ||
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,830
|
Frontal Head Restraints
To become mandatory for circuit racing in UK, as those that have have read the latest MSA mag will know! EXCEPT in Historic racers, and in 2016.... Next season 'post year 2000 single seater' drivers will have to wear the device, before it becomes mandatory for other cars.
I've looked on the (new) website where rules changes are apparently now published, but didn't find the details. Would be good to know the exact definition of 'historic' for this regulation, so if anyone knows, please enlighten the rest of us! The mag also suggests 'with the exeption of defined period vehicles'..... |
||
__________________
Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein) |
15 Nov 2014, 21:26 (Ref:3475158) | #2 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,873
|
.
Someone posted this on another forum, I tried to find it in the online version of the mag but failed. Can you point me to a link as my paper copy hasn't arrived? |
||
__________________
Midgetman - known as Max Tyler to the world. MaxAttaq! |
15 Nov 2014, 21:58 (Ref:3475178) | #3 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,821
|
Quote:
Not good for my blood pressure.... |
|||
__________________
a salary slave no more... |
16 Nov 2014, 01:22 (Ref:3475237) | #4 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,368
|
I've never been to keen on the idea of a HANS device until recently. I don't know why but I have now changed my mind and was already going to get one for the 2015 season. On the lines of 'if you're going to do it then do it properly' I'd decided on the Simpson Hybrid as it protects in side impact too. Looks an ugly device to wear and I can see that it may slow down quick exit and entry to the car in mandatory pit stops but I guess its a small price to pay, unlike the actual purchase price! I am of course assuming that the Simpson will be to the correct spec for the new MSA ruling and will wait for confirmation before spending my money
|
|
__________________
CSCC Swinging Sixties #128 Red/Black Mustang |
16 Nov 2014, 07:26 (Ref:3475324) | #5 | |||
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,830
|
Quote:
The latest mag (winter 2014) doesn't appear to be loaded onto the website yet, should be under 'publications'. Apparently the loose leaf rule changes we got with the paper mag are not continuing, but being put on website instead. But not yet..... Was thinking about time we had licence renewal form, so was looking for that also. Only 2014 version! |
|||
__________________
Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein) |
16 Nov 2014, 09:30 (Ref:3475360) | #6 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,078
|
Moose, I went for the Simpson Hybrid for the same reason, also as it was designed for closed cockpit cars it works with any angle of seat back & you don't need special belts.
The only restriction I have noticed is not being able to look down at the floor of the car when strapped in, so if the switches are in a floor mounted box you have to remember their functions. It hasn't slowed down my entry & exit from cars in pit stops, but I'm not exactly the fastest anyway . You can always try mine for size before splashing out, as can you Mike, although it may be a bit large |
|
|
16 Nov 2014, 09:42 (Ref:3475364) | #7 | ||
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 11,143
|
What's the betting that devices will be date lifed and all those of us will original HANS devices will have to buy new ones.
|
||
|
16 Nov 2014, 11:18 (Ref:3475396) | #8 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,036
|
|||
__________________
Born in the Midlands, made in the Royal Navy |
16 Nov 2014, 11:36 (Ref:3475401) | #9 | |
Racer
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 163
|
It would be interesting to get a definitive answer to the belts/seat question,not the usual "camel was a horse designed by a committee" answer.
A friend told me at donington a while back,a hans wearing driver was told his belts were not suitable for a hans,he was told not to wear it,or change the belts. Perhaps a scrutineer will read this and comment? I think hans is good,but we don't need cosmetic changing of seats/belts,we run with un-dated fia seats,lifed belts,we need a sense of proportion. |
|
|
16 Nov 2014, 11:40 (Ref:3475402) | #10 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,036
|
CSCC had a bulk buy oh Hans devices a couple of years ago for its members, and we were told then that there was no need for Hans specific belts and seats. I can't point to a definitive written piece of proof but neither can I find anything in the blue book. The Hans manufacturer we dealt was adamant.
You can use 3 inch belts with a Hans device, what you can't do is use the 2 inch Hans belts if you don't have a Hans. |
||
__________________
Born in the Midlands, made in the Royal Navy |
16 Nov 2014, 16:05 (Ref:3475462) | #11 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,078
|
Quote:
It was when I was looking for one for myself a couple of years earlier i was told you could only use 2" belts with a Hans. |
||
|
16 Nov 2014, 16:19 (Ref:3475467) | #12 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,036
|
Quote:
On the subject of seats, for those that think they need Hans specific seats, remember that most single seaters and sports racers don't have the "Normal" competition car seats that saloon racers use, they usually have bespoke seats made of twin pack foam formed withe driver sitting in the car whilst the 2 chemicals are poured into a bin liner, or something similar, that the driver is sitting in. Nothing "Hans specific" about that arrangement! |
|||
__________________
Born in the Midlands, made in the Royal Navy |
16 Nov 2014, 16:40 (Ref:3475469) | #13 | |||
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,830
|
Quote:
I think high back seats marked 'HANS specific' have large apertures for shoulder straps. That doesn't mean other seats won't work with an FHR just as well.... |
|||
__________________
Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein) |
16 Nov 2014, 17:24 (Ref:3475479) | #14 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,873
|
Ah Winter 2014... Just like the MSA to launch a new website and only have outdated info on it....
HANS devices are good for turnover and do beggar all for profits so the new rule won't see me needing one next season Here's something I learned from the horse's mouth - Stand 21. The latest HANS devices work perfectly with the 3" belts. The special HANS belts and seats are, let's be charitable, marketing led. |
||
__________________
Midgetman - known as Max Tyler to the world. MaxAttaq! |
16 Nov 2014, 17:58 (Ref:3475491) | #15 | ||
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 37,621
|
Try buying a hans belt that isn't 2/3" now though. 6 months ago there was the "slipstop" belt system. Now the only 3" wide hans belt is a schroth which has a 2" hans belt on the top of the 3".
I'm happy to be corrected here but I've just recently been researching. As to the use with "non hans" seats. I'm sure that arguments will abound if a non FIA seat is used with a hans and an incident occurs where the driver is injured due to the seat failing. For my part I think it is best to use the correct seat if a Hans is to be used. |
||
__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead. |
16 Nov 2014, 18:17 (Ref:3475501) | #16 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,036
|
The point, though, Peter is that there is no such thing as the "correct seat", and certainly not one that the Hans manufacturers endorse.
|
||
__________________
Born in the Midlands, made in the Royal Navy |
16 Nov 2014, 20:14 (Ref:3475535) | #17 | ||
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 37,621
|
Really? Yet the hans compatible (not approved sorry) seats have larger slots to allow for the difference in height of different drivers.
|
||
__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead. |
16 Nov 2014, 20:50 (Ref:3475547) | #18 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,036
|
Yes, really. Hans seats and belts are a product of seat and belt manufacturers, not of Hans manufacturers.
|
||
__________________
Born in the Midlands, made in the Royal Navy |
16 Nov 2014, 21:23 (Ref:3475558) | #19 | ||
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 37,621
|
Schroth made my Hans and make Hans compatible belts so I don't really get your point. My point is that if you suffer an accident whilst wearing a Hans device in a seat that is not compatible, there may be repercussions.
|
||
__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead. |
16 Nov 2014, 21:34 (Ref:3475564) | #20 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,036
|
My point is that all 3 inch belts and all standard race seats on sale are Hans compatible. There is no such thing as a 3 inch belt or a normal race seat that is not Hans compatible.
|
||
__________________
Born in the Midlands, made in the Royal Navy |
16 Nov 2014, 21:40 (Ref:3475565) | #21 | ||
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 37,621
|
Well I beg to differ. You have no argument from me re the 3" belts but I can assure you that if you dont have a hans compatible seat, you may run into product liability problems in the event of a mis hap. Go check the websites where thry market these things. Its not about price because in some instances a fia approved hans compatible seat is cheaper than a non compatible seat. The reason is the slots in the seat back. I won't mention brand names but it is easy to check it out. As to belts, I was looking for 3" so that a non hans wearing driver could drive my car. It seems that wont be necessary next year though.
|
||
__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead. |
16 Nov 2014, 22:16 (Ref:3475579) | #22 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,036
|
Peter, my info comes direct from a Hans manufacturer and is backed up by Midgetman's comment at post #14.
The crucial requirement is that the belts are fitted in accordance with the Hans manufacturers recommendations. Please explain how single seater racers are catered for in the scenario you paint please, Peter. Last edited by andy97; 16 Nov 2014 at 22:21. |
||
__________________
Born in the Midlands, made in the Royal Navy |
16 Nov 2014, 22:18 (Ref:3475581) | #23 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,368
|
Hmm, got me thinking now and off on a slight tangent..............I run a non FIA Kirkey seat, plenty of US racers use HANS with them so I don't think that will be a problem. But this talk of FIA seats got me thinking about Spa which I may do next year and I know they supposedly now only allow FIA seats, so going back a few posts to the foam/grp seats of single seaters and sports racers - how are they FIA compliant? And if as I'm assuming they do not need to be, why not?
|
|
__________________
CSCC Swinging Sixties #128 Red/Black Mustang |
16 Nov 2014, 23:45 (Ref:3475601) | #24 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,996
|
Quote:
https://www.msauk.org/News-Publicati...s/MSA-Magazine |
||
__________________
Cromley: "With the margin Gareth has, he doesn't need to play for sheep stations" |
17 Nov 2014, 05:58 (Ref:3475681) | #25 | ||
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 37,621
|
Andy. As far as I am aware, there are no slots in foam single seater seats.
|
||
__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead. |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
forward head (neck ) restraints | patrick wardbooth | Racers Forum | 2 | 15 May 2014 19:06 |
Where can I fabricate One-piece frontal section? | GT-Driver | Racing Technology | 8 | 15 Jan 2011 10:40 |
Aerodynamic drag coefficient and frontal area of a Honda Accord? | pitcrew | Racing Technology | 4 | 16 Mar 2005 23:54 |
HANS & neck restraints | graeme | Racers Forum | 33 | 14 Mar 2004 13:27 |
Frontal Area | avsfan733 | Racing Technology | 18 | 4 Mar 2003 15:57 |