Brabham BT14

[allenbrown]

I'm sure we had a thread on the BT14s before but it's vanished. So, until it turns up again and gets merged, here's a "continuation thread".

[allenbrown]

Autosport 20 Apr 1978 p66 advert for a "Brabham BT14 1965 Ex Geoff Ingliss Hillclimb car. One of only 2 short wheelbase chassis ever built. Presently fitted with Alfa Romeo twin cam engine ... Brixham 55223 (Devon)".

[Bryan Miller]

We have 3 in Australia , by coincidence they are chassis numbers ,
FL-1-65 , FL-2-65 and FL -3-65.
Will detail later.
Bryan.

[allenbrown]

Bryan

Do you recall a previous BT14 thread. Ted and I both think there was but Andrew can't remember one.

Allen

[Bryan Miller]

No previous thread as far as I can remember , I did ask 1 question somewhere about a '' BT14 , FL-1-65 , '' report in an Autosport about 1970 , and queried this plate no. but absolutely nothing else , that question and report may be on the B29 thread , I will look.
Bryan.

[allenbrown]

OK, I found it. It wasn't a dedicated thread on BT14s, it was part of thread on sprint Brabhams. This one might be hard for John to work on because it was on TNF! Well at least I'm relieved to know my memory isn't completely shot!

I'll do a summary for my new 10 Tenths BT14 thread.

Allen

[John Turner]

Rodger Newman's BT14 at Cadwell, 26 June, 2005:-

[allenbrown]

Here's what I know about BT14s after the discussion I had with David McK, Steve W and Ted W plus a very helpful recent list from Denis Lupton. All cars are in the UK unless otherwise stated.

FL-1-65 - Bib Stillwell (Aus) 1965 - RC Philips Late 1965 - Bob Jane 1968
FL-2-65 - John Butterworth 1965-68 ... missing in 1969-71 ... Geoff Inglis in 1972 ... Devon in 1978
FL-3-65 - John Mitchell 1965-67; reportedly sold to America ...
FL-4-65 - Fred Smith 1965-68 - Peter Kaye 1969 ... Geoff Lambert 1971
FL-5-65 - Malcolm Templeton (Ire) 1965-67 - John Smith (Ire) 1968 ... Edmund Irvine (Ire) 1970
FL-6-65 - Rodney Bloor 1965 - John Bridges 1965 - John Davis 1966 ...
FL-7-65 - Jackie Epstein 1965 - Ian Raby late 1965 and retained by team until at least 1969
FL-8-65 - Robert Ashcroft/Derek Bennett 1965 - Jim Charnock 1966 - Davey Powell 1966-67...
FL-9-65 - Kurt Ahrens ... (according to Denis)
FL-10-65 - no such car (according to Denis)

Other suspected BT14s are:
1. John and David Bridges 1965 - Bryan Eccles 1966 - Roy Lane 1967-68 - Jim Johnstone 1969 - John Scott-Walter 1970 - Malcolm Dungworth 1971 ...
2. John Ewer 1965 (odd libre races from May onwards, advertised Jan 1966)
3. Barrie Ford 1965 (1650cc - two libre races in Sep and Oct 1965)
4. Keith Jones 1965 (1650cc)
5. Earl Jones US Formula B 1965 (wrecked)
Cars that first appear in 1966:
6. John Bridges/Red Rose Motors 1966
7. David Preston/Sports Motors 1966
8. Philippe Vidal F3 1966
Cars that first appear in 1968:
9. Jan Bussell (Malaysia) ex Howden Ganley unused F3 car

As Brabham records have always said that ten BT14s were built, the lack of a FL-10-65 is a puzzle. However, the Bridges-Eccles-Lane car pretty clearly was a BT14 so maybe it missed out on being allocated a number. The others must have been something that looked like a BT14 but ...

Bryan - could you fill me in on 1-65, 2-65 and 3-65 in Australia?

Allen

[allenbrown]

Ted

John Blanden's book says that the Bussell car is AM88. Is that in the right range for a BT14. Any way to speculate from the number whether it's early 1964 or late 1964? Or whether it might have been a BT15 or a BT16 rather than a BT14?

Allen

[Bryan Miller]

AM 88 is way out of BT14 range, I spent the weekend at Eastern Creek , and advised John Gale who owns FL-3-65 of this site , he will join in asap , also John and someone he knows in the USA have been working on the histories of the BT 14's so will contribute their research so far.
John's FL-3-65 is a single digit AM number , if he wishes to advise the exact number I will leave that up to John.
The detective work John did to estalblish his cars history would be the most comprehensive I have ever seen , Duncan R. is aware of it and has no problem with the conclusion.
Bryan.

[Ted Walker]

I have FL6 as being owned at one point by Alan Baille FL7 as owned by TonyBarchou and Don Orosco(probably via Dick Crossthwaite ?? ) FL8 Mike Freeman then to Bob Hollander USA. And Finally FL10 I have the AM No and owner !!!

[allenbrown]

Thanks Ted

How about AM numbers? How do the AM numbers you have on record for BT14s compare with the AM88 on Bussell's car? Bryan says AM88 is well out of range. Would you agree?

[Ted Walker]

I would agree Allen. I would say we are looking at a No (without giving anything away) in the sub 50 area

[allenbrown]

So AM88 would be a 1966 car of some sort?

[Ted Walker]

Probably a BT15 I should think Allen.

[allenbrown]

Which would explain why Howden Ganley had it for F3. I wonder why it's always been known as a BT14.

Allen

[Bryan Miller]

Allen,

The same old update story , you fit a Ford twink to a BT15 and it then becomes a car in BT14 spec.[ it doesn't but you know what I am getting at] , no different to fitting BT35 panels to a BT28 , car then becomes BT35.
Car could also be a BT16 .
Bryan.

[allenbrown]

Bryan

Have you seen the car?

Allen

[Bryan Miller]

Allen,

The factory list defines 9 x built in 1965 and 1 x built 1966.

Where is AM 88 now , if in Australia please advise owner.?

FL-1-65 , purchased from Bib Stilwell's estate by Peter Johnson Sydney , then to Rob Hands in Melbourne and about 12 months ago to Peter Harburg of Queensland.

FL-2-65 , purchased from John Ampt circa 1988 by Noel Robson in Melbourne and retained.

FL-3-65 , bought in from the USA about 10 years ago as a basket case , and thought to be a BT14 , rebuilt/restored by George Goodare of Sydney, to Brian Wilson ,Sydney , then to current owner John Gale of Sydney , retained.As previously John was the person that did an astounding research job , it is the ex Mitchell car from the U.K. 1965/6 thence to USA with Bruce Redding etc. I will let John tell the story.

Bryan.

[Bryan Miller]

Allen , see my email, the Howden Ganley car is not AM 88 , it is AM66 .
David , car did go to N.Z. sold by Jan Bussell to a Christchurch based aircraft engineer in the early 1970's , but never raced untill Feb. 2000 in the Southern Festival of Speed. thence imported to Australia.
Bryan.

[Bryan Miller]

There is another possible car in this mix, that is the Greg Cusack twin-cam car from new , not the converted BT6 now owned by Peter Johnson.
This car was new to Greg Cusack , possibly a BT10 , was sold by Cusack to New Zealand owner Don McDonald, and very quickly destroyed I believe , David , have /did you ever see a plate on this , a rumour exists that this car carried 1C-6-64 plate , car was sold to NZ circa 1966.?
I have fabulous photo's of the car in pit lane at Warwick Farm.
Bryan.

[Bryan Miller]

Allen,

Your '' others'' # 7 , Rodney Bloor was ''Sports Motors '', and as he owned FL 6 , maybe that was a renta sometimes.
Bryan.

[David McKinney]

Originally Posted by Bryan Miller

There is another possible car in this mix, that is the Greg Cusack twin-cam car from new , not the converted BT6 now owned by Peter Johnson.
This car was new to Greg Cusack , possibly a BT10 , was sold by Cusack to New Zealand owner Don McDonald, and very quickly destroyed I believe , David , have /did you ever see a plate on this , a rumour exists that this car carried 1C-6-64 plate , car was sold to NZ circa 1966.?
I have fabulous photo's of the car in pit lane at Warwick Farm.
Bryan.

Yes, there was a plate, and it did say IC-6-64. It was usually entered in NZ just as a Brabham, or sometimes as a BT18, which is patently incorrect. My guess was that the number would fit with it being a BT10
It raced in NZ for four seasons, 1966/67 to 1969/70, the first two with Don Macdonald and the other with Wayne Murdoch. It was then converted to FF and raced for a few more seasons. I had lost track of it by the mid ‘70s

[Ted Walker]

I have a note in my "book" that Im sure came from a phone call with Howden in the 80s that says F2-4-66 (AM..) not the No you think. Constucted by Ganley whilst at Brabhams. Bought Jan 67 by Bussel.Raced in Malaysia(engine supplied by Red Rose Motors) sold 72 to P Chann 73 Bruce Winder NZ.

[Alan Brown]

As a newcomer, although a frequent reader of these interesting posts, I hope that I can slot in a little piece of the jigsaw. Entered at Great Auclum in August 1968 was R T Lane Brabham V8 GM 3500 - I noted in my programme FL-1-65. This seems to confirm the history of the Bridges' car.