redesign

[kerb]

I am new to this so my ms paint skills are fairly sloppy, and I don't have a clue on the other stuff using a laptop. so I am more asking than just allowing people to make my circuit below a little more presentable.

[kerb]

the circuit runs anti-clockwise, with 14 corners. the run to turn one is flattish, before a climb with a gradient of 10-15 degrees to T2, which has a rise in the middle of it similar to mount panorama's cutting. between T2-3 is a slight downhill of 2-5 degrees before another climb, 5-10 degrees all the way to T4. a flat run to T5 and yet another climb, 3-8 degrees, continuing around T6 peaking somewhere along the back straight, before descending for the next section. T7-8 I visioned it as a faster version of the Laguna seca corkscrew, steep. T9 will be another downhill run before T10, another steep down hill corner and then T11 will be like the symmons plains hairpin, another fast downhill run through T12 to flatten out on approach to T13, with pit entry on the inside, then the final dab of brake at T14 to blast up the pit straight. the grey road running under the back is the entrance to the paddock. the blue box is for the safety cars and trucks. I hope this would be good for touring cars, and some open wheels.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

OK so without the gradient a scaled version of your circuit at 12m constant width would translate something like this....



Your lack of scale is letting your mind run away with how you imagine a circuit might look. In this case the circuit is only 3.347km long.

You liken to T11 to Symonds Plains hairpin, but there it's a 500m+ approach rather than the 300m in your design.

I know paint isn't the easiest to work with, but try using a thinner line, as if drawing a circuit by pen or pencil. Think about the shape or arc of the corner, with the thinner line it will be easier to show.

Anyway I hope this is what you were looking for

[kerb]

Your lack of scale is letting your mind run away with how you imagine a circuit might look. In this case the circuit is only 3.347km long.

that's a good length for touring cars

You liken to T11 to Symonds Plains hairpin, but there it's a 500m+ approach rather than the 300m in your design.

I just meant the camber of the road and the dip

I know paint isn't the easiest to work with, but try using a thinner line, as if drawing a circuit by pen or pencil. Think about the shape or arc of the corner, with the thinner line it will be easier to show.

goog point, they look a little better on paper, but i don't have access to a scanner

Anyway I hope this is what you were looking for[/QUOTE]

cheers mate, that's what I want.

[kerb]

hey SBF, I just noticed something about the pit lane exit, you've shortened the pit lane and put the exit before T1. T1 is a fastish corner and the pit exit sends them toward the apex and could cause a nasty accident

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Originally Posted by kerb

hey SBF, I just noticed something about the pit lane exit, you've shortened the pit lane and put the exit before T1. T1 is a fastish corner and the pit exit sends them toward the apex and could cause a nasty accident

I can't find the sketchup file to check but usually I try to follow real world measurements about how close pit exits can be to T1. This means that there is usually around a minimum of 100m from the apex to the extreme of the pit lane exit. Looking at it, I may have been a little shorter on this one at around 80-90m. I think when I originally drew it your way, at scale it looks an inordinately long exit.
By shortening up the pitwall section (after the garages), the pit exit would move another 10m easily further away from the apex.

[kerb]

think of it as the Daytona road course exit. it keeps the car out of the way and gives time to eliminate speed difference.

[kerb]

ok next track, living in Australia, I am noticing something (it may be different overseas), outdoor hire kart tracks are starting to disappear. living in Canberra, we have none, there is a club circuit, but hire karts are all indoors. I have posted this on another thread asking for ideas, but got no feedback, so without further ado, I present a nameless circuit that I published in a more boring than usual English class.

[kerb]

so moving clockwise, the long track is in the range of 1.5 to 2 kilometres and the short just 200 to 500 metres shorter. the two pit lanes are hire in grey and comp in black. the blue square is the 360 degree viewing platform(for photos, some parents are like that), red square being clubhouse/fast food outlet, black rectangle is the car park/comp paddock. and the long track T5, sorry, couldn't help myself. hire karters have a choice of layout, long or short, but comps will be the long course.

[kerb]

ok, no responses? how disappointing

[kerb]

this is the third circuit on my thread, no sand or grass yet

[kerb]

the track moves anti clockwise with 13 turns and between 3 and 4 km in length. the black line is the main track, with the blue short track cutting the course to 2-3km. the grey line is the pit lane, with a long run of exit to eliminate speed difference

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Rule of thumb Number 1 (though there are exceptions in the real world) put the pits on the side of the track that becomes the inside of T1. the pit exit is aimed at the racing line as it turns into the apex.

From your drawing T1 would look something like below, with the red line showing the racing line.



Even moving the pit exit further to the right onto the curve would put cars exiting the pits in danger of a another car having a braking incident into T1

So using SBF's Rule of thumb #1 putting the pit on the inside of T1 would result in this



Here you can see the racing line, and overtaking line and the pit exit safely on the inside.

[kerb]

I was thinking of it like Oran Park, and the exit after the limiter should be long enough to limit speed difference

what about around the corner on the inside before re-joining the track?

ironically I do believe I made a similar point when you edited my first track

[ScotsBrutesFan]

It's not about speed difference, it's about being able to rejoin safely where the driver coming down the straight isn't caught out by some one blindly cutting into the racing line. Or rejoining after the turn in point to a corner and being caught between a car having its own accident and the gravel trap.

If the pit straight isn't long enough for the pit exit to rejoin 90 or more metres before the inside of T1, there is nothing wrong with rejoining after the T1 apex if it's safe to do so. The Silverstone pits both old and new exit after T1.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by kerb

so moving clockwise, the long track is in the range of 1.5 to 2 kilometres and the short just 200 to 500 metres shorter. the two pit lanes are hire in grey and comp in black. the blue square is the 360 degree viewing platform(for photos, some parents are like that), red square being clubhouse/fast food outlet, black rectangle is the car park/comp paddock. and the long track T5, sorry, couldn't help myself. hire karters have a choice of layout, long or short, but comps will be the long course.

Kart tracks tended to follow FIA minimums because realistically they need to be about half a mile long, maybe 3/4 at the most.
The FIA insisted on 1000m for a class 2 and 1200 for a class 1 circuit but the latest manual for track specifications says 800m is the minimum length for certification.

So your circuits are at the extreme end of long. maximum straight length is 170m for a sprint circuit so you need to look at what you are putting together and if you are going to be realistic about it outdoor hire circuits do not need to be long. 600-800m is fine. A national circuit in Australia needs to be 800-1000m minimum. Longer than that is only because they were following FIA guidelines when building them.
The minimum width was 8m and people were building 9m or 10m wide circuits which is close to the minimum for car circuits at a national level.

I know paint is difficult to use but if you have a chance learn about Sketch-up which can be a lot more adaptable but get the version in metric.

[Teretonga]

Here are three of mine. Two kart tracks and another road circuit. The kart tracks fit on 8-12 acre lots, depending on length and provide for 200+ pit spots. The race track is designed for a tight site, has a kart track and a drag strip on site with access from inside the circuit for the kart track. it shares the pit area with the car circuit but its ample for most car events.

I haven't shown the pit exit because I am still in debate about it but probably after turn 1. The advice you have already received is correct and its something you need to think carefully about.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

For the pit exit on the middle design something Magny Cours like might be the answer.

Exiting after the T1 apex and then being kept on the outside of T2 using the don't cross line, until far enough around that a safe merge can occur onto the racing line for T3

[kerb]

ok, I am on sketch up Make. just one question, how do I make hills?

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Best to start with 2D plan views until you get used to it. If you look in the sketch up tutorial you'll find out some of the easier stuff.

[Yannick]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Attachment 43024

The 3rd image in post 17

Teretonga, you should consider upscaling the blot shape of this one to the track length of Monza and then create a new track map of it with a thinner line for the circuit, reshaping it to fit its new size. That would turn it into an instant classic of a road course.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Yannick

The 3rd image in post 17

Teretonga, you should consider upscaling the blot shape of this one to the track length of Monza and then create a new track map of it with a thinner line for the circuit, reshaping it to fit its new size. That would turn it into an instant classic of a road course.

You mean like this?



Just for you....

[Yannick]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

You mean like this?



Just for you....

Yeah! That's it! I love this circuit! It's one of the best I've seen on TenTenths.com ever. Simple, effective and fast. It's got a great flow of corners and some places that require courage from the driver (like Turn 1 for example) and you can overtake in a few places, too.
Bio, if you are reading this, do you think this circuit would work nicely in a racesim environment? Thanks for considering.

[kerb]

next track. now people have been asking me to try sketch up. and here is one. I love street circuits for their challenge, but you have to close a lot of streets, but the Koria GP circuit had a street sector on a permanent facility. so why not do it for a full circuit? and here it is.

[kerb]

uh, I think you guys may be able to edit it, because I can open it here