What Road/Street Courses Would You Want?

[Dov]

IF CART and the IRL were to unite in '05 or '06 what 10 road/street courses would you like to see on the schedule? If there is more then 20 races on the schedule in this new united OW series, then we might have more then the allowed 10, but I'm going by the 10 ovals and 10 road/street courses for now.

Here are the choices.....from the 2003 CART schedule:
St. Pete
Monterrey, Mexico
Long Beach
Brands Hatch
Laguna Seca
Portland
Cleveland
Toronto
Vancouver
Road America
Mid-Ohio
Montreal
Denver
Miami
Mexico City
Surfer's Paradise

Here are MY 10 choices:
(INTERNATIONAL)
Toronto
Montreal
Monterrey
Mexico City
Surfer's Paradise

(U.S.)
Road America
Long Beach
Laguna Seca
Cleveland
St. Pete

P.S. The final choice (St. Pete) was tough to make, because I really love both Mid-Ohio and Portland. I think St. Pete is a great track and the races will only continue to get better over the years. I also feel bad for the people in the NorthWest....I cut the race in Vancouver, Canada & Portland, U.S. Hopefully the schedule will consist of 24-28 races, that way we won't have to give up any or very few of our road and street courses.

[carsten66]

St. Petersburg
Long Beach
Toronto
Montreal
Spa Francorchamps
Cleveland
Laguna Seca
Mexico City
Surfer's Paradise

[Dov]

Good picks carsten, but your still allowed 1 more choice....you only made 9.

[Schuberth]

INTERNATIONAL
Montreal
Toronto
Vancouver
Surfer's
Monterrey

US Venues
Road America
Long Beach
Mid Ohio
Laguna Seca
Barber ( Alabama )

I think OW should take a look at this track, but that's just me.

[The Treester]

Ahhhhhhh!
Of Course LONG BEACH is and will always be the main event! Street circuits seperate the Men from the Boyz!

The best of the rest, my picks of course, are as follows:

Laguna Seca (can't imagine not having the cork-screw on the schedule!)
Portland (it's all about the set-up!)
Cleveland (street, excuse me - airport, race under the lights!)
Toronto (part of the Canadian Hat Trick!)
Vancouver (part of the Canadian Hat Trick!)
Road America (tradition!)
Mid-Ohio (simple but technical!)
Montreal (part of the Canadian Hat Trick)
Surfer's Paradise (nothing like a wet race in the streets, lately)

The "only if I had Five more to choose" list!

St. Pete
Monterrey, Mexico
Mexico City
Brands Hatch (full course)
Miami (only if they change the darn layout to make the track spectator friendly!)

I prefer an all road racing series and combining ALMS to do night races on Saturdays!

[Flatspot]

Like you list Treester save exchanging Mexico City for Vancouver. Sorry my freinds in the Great White North.

[carsten66]

Dov, I Know... there are more than one track I wish to add on the list... shure RA or Mid Ohio are great... okay, here is no 10: I add Helsinki on the list... I would be an experience, but not unknown, perhaps you remember back in '95/'96... the race was the now legendary "ITC(DTM) Thunder" street race in Helsinki, Finland which attracted a crowd of 110,000 people on race day... and the track layout subsequently was used for F3000 and FIA GT races in 1997... circuit length: 1.976 miles / 3.180km, 13 turns...

[carsten66]

and here is the track layout:

[Snrub]

CART needs to hit the primary target market in the next couple of years. Europe would be great, but unless there is guarenteed money it's not doable. Looks like a good track though.

[GP Racer]

Now your talkin Dov! Way to get with the program. Keep it up brother!

My picks:

St Pete(it will be huge one day!)
Cleveland
Montreal
Surfers
Laguna
Toronto
Long Beach
Road america
Mid-Ohio
Monterrey

Oh, I forgot S Korea and S Africa!

[Dov]

Originally posted by GP Racer
Now your talkin Dov! Way to get with the program. Keep it up brother!

Hey GP, let's remember that we are speaking hypothetically here since we have no idea what the future will bring OW racing in NA. I would still like to see what OWRS can do with ChampCars....if they can turn it around and make a success of it, but I am also a realist and I know that OW racing in NA won't survive, let alone thrive unless there is a merger between the two series. That said, I still don't trust TG and if there was to be any future deal between the series, he (TG) could not have more then 50% control of it. Spicoli at CW is saying today that some of his sources are telling him that TG might be thinking about getting out of the "owning a series" business and will just be a track owner again. That would be fine by me. Like Led Zeppelin once said...."I'm dazed and confused"....Seriously, I am really torn over this whole mess.

P.S. Hatred of a person is a funny thing. While I really do dislike TG and still don't trust him, after all these years ('96 onward) I have come to realize that the hate you build up for somebody else can also end up hurting you even worse.....

[f1manoz]

Long Beach
Road America
Laguna Seca
Mexico City
Monterrey (get rid of those ridiculous chicanes though)
Montreal
Toronto
Cleveland
St. Pete's
Surfers

[macdaddy]

manoz's list looks fine, but I'd drop Laguna to take in Brands' long circuit. It pains me to say that, but if not for the Corkscrew, the track's not really overly entertaining with the ChampCars.

Out of selfishness, I'd drop any one of 'em for another Detroit GP! (Last year at this time I was optimistic that Ford would insist on it). But, seeing as this thread is about what tracks we'd keep in event of a merger, I suppose that I could let Detroit go if they gave me back my Michigan.

[Dov]

I'm a little surprised at those of you who have chosen the GP of Monterrey, Mexico over the GP of Mexico City!? Monterrey is a decent track, but Mexico City is the real deal.....just my 2 cents.

[GP Racer]

Originally posted by Dov


P.S. Hatred of a person is a funny thing. While I really do dislike TG and still don't trust him, after all these years ('96 onward) I have come to realize that the hate you build up for somebody else can also end up hurting you even worse..... [/B]

Your right Dov.

The anger many of us had for TG from 94 onward, may have to be re-visited, to see if its still valid today. It may still be, but you have to admit, alot has changed. TG hardly even makes any public announcements on anything about open wheel racing these days, so I can't really be all that upset with the guy anymore. Open wheel racing is really on the balls of its ass right now, and it's going to take all hands to save it, including Tony George.

Just stay open minded about the future, something very good might very well come out of this, and you won't want to be left out.

[The Treester]

Dov, I agree with you, but since I'm bias of the "concrete canyons", I choose to leave both of them out.

Macdaddy, ur right about Laguna, without the corkscrew, it becomes a "pit strategy race" after a few laps!

[BSchneiderFan]

Elkhart Lake
Laguna Seca
Sears Point
Montreal
Toronto
Long Beach
Mexico City
Surfers' Paradise
Spa-Francorchamps
Suzuka

[suzmac]

Okay here's my choices
Laguna Seca
Cleveland
Mid Ohio
Mexico City
Surfer's Paradise
Toronto
Vancouver
Montreal
Denver
St. Petersburg

[x_dt]

Long Beach
Cleveland
Road America
Montreal
Mexico City
Surfer's Paradise

and also

Adelaide
Spa-Francorchamps
Paul Ricard (as used by F1 up to 1985)
Jacarepagua (which was on the original 2001 schedule)

[jhansen]

Picking from the 2003 schedule I can't really disagree with too many of the lists here. As for venues I'd like to see added, I think Road Atlanta in the U.S. would be a good venue. ALMS certainly puts on a good show there. Suzuka would be a great venue in a market CART should have addded in its stronger days. And how about Brands (long),Spa and Monza for a European swing?!! Just dreaming now.

[MLM]

Originally posted by GP Racer
Your right Dov.

The anger many of us had for TG from 94 onward, may have to be re-visited, to see if its still valid today. It may still be, but you have to admit, alot has changed. TG hardly even makes any public announcements on anything about open wheel racing these days, so I can't really be all that upset with the guy anymore. Open wheel racing is really on the balls of its ass right now, and it's going to take all hands to save it, including Tony George.

Just stay open minded about the future, something very good might very well come out of this, and you won't want to be left out.

Open minded are, I think, the operative words.
I don't think now is the time for long standing feuds, bitterness, etc....
Right now, I think is the time to wait, be patient, and be supportive of our favorite teams and drivers.

That said....the courses I'd like to see remain are...
Mid Ohio (of course!)
Toronto (because it's one of my favorite cities)
Vancouver
Montreal (because the Canadien races draw VERY well)
Laguna
Road America
Monterrey
hmmmm.....maybe some ovals. I can't think of anything else right now.

[codename_47]

Originally posted by jhansen
Picking from the 2003 schedule I can't really disagree with too many of the lists here. As for venues I'd like to see added, I think Road Atlanta in the U.S. would be a good venue. ALMS certainly puts on a good show there. Suzuka would be a great venue in a market CART should have addded in its stronger days. And how about Brands (long),Spa and Monza for a European swing?!! Just dreaming now.

This is pretty much what I was going to say...so kudos!

I still don't know why they dangled the possibilty of Spa at us last year if they weren't serious about it, though something tells me the Champ Cars would be a blast around Monza!

You could probably add Watkins Glen to that too...though if this is a hypothetical discussion, then it's also a fantasy world where it's more suitible for Open Wheelers!

[Omega99]

It's tough to narrow it to just ten. But if I had to, I'd go with:

Monterrey, Mexico
Long Beach
Laguna Seca
Cleveland
Toronto
Vancouver
Road America
Montreal
Mexico City
Surfer's Paradise

But I'd miss Mid-Ohio. I think St. Pete's could be a very successful event. Certainly more successful than Miami. Portland's attendance has really dropeed off and the track has fallen into a relative state disrepair, although it still produces some great racing. The only races I really wouldn't miss would be Denver and Miami, and I guess Brands as well because I've accepted the fact that Europe just won't work out right now.

Actually, I think ten road/street cousres is too few, and ten ovals is too many, especially considering the dwindling attendance figures for open-wheel events at ovals of late. But I'm willing to compromise for the sake of progress. Let's just hope that TG, PG, GF, KK, et al are willing to do so as well.

[The Treester]

What the heck, do the merger, 18-10 split, road vs. oval, got to the awful NA engines, go head to head with NASCAR (50 yrs young drivers), draw the younger crowd with Motorock, add the exotic ALMS cars to the venues-to draw different engine manufactures to Champ Cars....by the way Road Atlanta will be to dangerous for the Champ Cars!

Sorry its 5 o'clock in da mooring, caffeine rush!

can we all just get along so we go racing?

[Hazza]

Oh dear, look out! Here's my horrid list:

(old) Long Beach - the 52 second lap.
Road America
Mid-Ohio
Cleveland
Portland
Laguna

Surfers (C'mon, i've actualy gotta be able to see theese things race!)
Mexico City
The Canadian Hattrick


Wishlist:
Estoril
Brands Hatch Grand Prix
Silverstone
Spa
Adelaide
What about Eastern Creak? Sandown? (Maybe the long circuit?)
And finally, allthought impossible, the "Full" Calder circuit (try setting up the car for that one!)