2017 IndyCar Series schedule

[NaBUru38]

It's April, so it's time to talk about next year's IndyCar schedule.

Team owners have asked not to race outside North America. Canada deserves a second race. It could be Vancouver, Calgary or Montreal. Mexico has lost of international races at Autódromo Hermanos RodrÃ*guez, but apparently there's plenty of fans.

I think that Brazil would be a great place. However, the FIFA World Cup and Olympics have left huge deficits, plus the economy is in crisis and the political situation is critical. IndyCar could wait a couple of years to return.

Baltimore and Houston are gone, Boston is in. I don't see any new American cities wishing to bid.

The most likely American road courses are Austin and Watkins Glen. Austin has been bleeding money, so it's a mystery. Watkins Glen was renovated last year, so I guess that they would bid for another major race. IndyCar + Nascar Trucks could be an interesting card.

And there's the oval situation. We can never know if Kentucky, Richmond or New Hampshire are willing to have IndyCar back. Fontana was pretty much dumped by IndyCar. Milwaukee should return, but numbers seem not to add.

Now, thinking big: Bernie Ecclestone is talking about Las Vegas. It's a terrible time zone for Europeans. Could IndyCar do a Saturday night street race in late September / early October?

And what if IndyCar goes to Martinsville?

[Yannick]

It's a nice idea for a thread.

My guesses are that there are going to be 2 additions to the IndyCar calendar for 2017: Milwaukee with a new promoter and Fontana with a date in October as the new season finale.

Which of the current venues might be leaving is anyone's guess. There are certainly 2 events which will have to do well to continue. I don't want to name them now because I wish them lots of success for this year.

The possible additions of Milwaukee and Fontana might seem unspectacular choices to some observers, as much wilder and off-kilter suggestions are being discussed on the boards of the internet. But both are proven venues which dropped off for all the wrong reasons: a promoter closing up shop ended one whilst a scheduling clash ended the other - just for the time being.

If IndyCar could keep all of this year's events on the schedule for next year and add these two, 2017 would have a pretty awesome looking schedule, don't you think?

Any more additions for 2017 would seem like mere bonuses to this observer.

Happy scheduling!

[fieldodreams79]

I'd prefer no new tracks through parking lots or bumpy dated streets and I am with the owners; let's stay in North America.

Portland would be great.

I'm still not a fan of the GP of Indy. I'd like to see that go along with Texas. And not a fan of the double rounds on Belle Isle, but like the circuit.

I wish they could switch Barber to earlier in April. Always conflicts with an event at my local track...

Keep Road America!!! Everything else can work itself out.

What are the chances of increasing the number of events? I don't think adding 2 would be crazy of an idea.

[Purist]

IndyCar shouldn't run ovals shorter than Richmond (0.75-mile).

Texas isn't my favorite, but I think having an intermediate-length oval is good. Unfortunately, the lower-banked options in that department are limited. About the only ones left are Nashville and Kentucky.

Gateway is more of a mile-plus oval, but it wants in, and wouldn't be a bad option at all.

Hopefully, Milwaukee and Fontana can return. The trouble with Fontana is, while it would be great for a 500-mile closer, trying to run it into darkness poses problems with the Eastern Time Zone, unless you run it after we revert to Standard Time in early November.

I'm not big on the Indy GP either. If they want to keep it, run the full road course with oval Turn 1 incorporated (2.534 miles), and do the inside curbing at Turns 1 and 8 like F1 had it. That way, two-abreast is much more possible, and spear jobs are much less likely.

I'd prefer opening that race slot to another venue, though. The same goes for the second Detroit race. Thankfully, they're back to running the long course at Belle Isle.

I'm not going to be an express proponent for it, but the Champ Car street circuit in Las Vegas was one of the best put together for American open-wheel racing. I hope Boston does well and puts on a good race this year.

Absolutely, let's get Watkins Glen back in IndyCar.

As for Canada, apart from another temporary circuit, I'd love to see them back at Mont Tremblant. I suppose I'd be more excited if it were a sportscar series looking to take up the second available date at Montreal, but the Indy Cars are quite quick in the corners, and that back straight ought to be good for slipstreaming.

If not Mexico City, maybe they can return to Monterrey. If it can come back, I would like to see some tweaks made to the section following the Turn 5 hairpin and continuing through that chicane, which should be removed outright. It might also help to slightly ease the apexes at Turns 1 and 10.

That's what I've got so far.

[Salamus]

Never going to happen but I'm going to ask for this every year.

Cleveland please.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by Purist

IndyCar shouldn't run ovals shorter than Richmond (0.75-mile).

Why not? IndyCar shoudl try at least once.

Nascar Cup does 100 mph / 160 km/h average at Martinsville, which is a bit slower than Road America.

Originally Posted by Purist

I'm not going to be an express proponent for it, but the Champ Car street circuit in Las Vegas was one of the best put together for American open-wheel racing.

Randy Bernard knew that Las Vegas was a great place to put a new show. A sunset street race at an actual city (unlike Abu Dhabi) would be awesome.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by Salamus

Never going to happen but I'm going to ask for this every year.

Cleveland please.

Plus 1000. And I guess I've just about given up....

[daallo]

Originally Posted by Purist

If not Mexico City, maybe they can return to Monterrey. If it can come back, I would like to see some tweaks made to the section following the Turn 5 hairpin and continuing through that chicane, which should be removed outright. It might also help to slightly ease the apexes at Turns 1 and 10.

That's what I've got so far.

The Monterrey track is gone forever; even water canals occupy part of the former track.

[Purist]

Daallo, I haven't been able to find anything concrete on what exactly has happened at Fundidora Park, nor anything solid showing that the track is gone. If it is gone, I don't especially care for the new Mexico City layout, and no other track down there is up to snuff. So, I can't say that I'd be that keen on any of the existing options in Mexico in that case.

NBU38, really? Qualifying averages at Road America should be north of 140-mph.

Martinsville is flat with one viable lane in the turns. The corners are so slow that I'm not sure the downforce can make much difference in mid-corner speed. The Indy Cars are draggy and have less power than the Cup cars. So even if they go a few seconds quicker, I don't see there being much difference between minimum and maximum speeds over NASCAR. The Indy Cars weigh less with better brakes, so the braking zones will be shorter. And the inside lane will be THE preferred lane in the corners.

Beyond that, these cars can't knock each other about, and at Martinsville, they only have 18 seconds, or less, and just 0.526 of a mile to work with to spread out. At Road America, the Indy Cars have 4.048 miles and 100-105 seconds over which to distribute themselves.

Martinsville is a one-line track where they can't get a great punch out of the corner relative to one another, and where two strong compressions a lap will slam the physical gap between cars back down. Indy Cars can't play dodge 'ems like NASCAR, and there isn't much time or space to spread out anyway, which creates a traffic nightmare. It's too many of this type of car in too small a time/space, with too strong a rubber-band effect, encouraging too many crashes.

Bristol would be even worse, because they WOULD go insanely fast with their downforce, and with so little time/space, one small wiggle could cause a wreck that wipes out half the field. It would be a magnification of the problems seen at Dover.

As for Texas on the schedule, with Austin potentially up in the air, it's tough. TMS says they're gone if IndyCar goes to Austin, and I'm not terribly looking forward to returning to Reliant Park in Houston. Then again, that state has too many people and covers too much territory to be ignored.

Even if they did go to Austin, these cars don't get enough of a punch out of the corners to allow much to happen in a number of sections on the track. It would be tough to make much happen from the exit of Turn 1 to the entry of Turn 3. The same goes for between Turns 7 and 9. It's too easy to block a run between Turns 9 and 11, because of how abrupt the Turn 10 kink is. And forget about there being enough speed differential in the "stadium section" to create much dicing.

Put it this way, the F1 cars can accelerate and brake better, but also, in the slipstream with DRS, they can quite possibly get 205-mph into Turn 12 at Austin, while these Indy Cars just MIGHT be able to reach 180-mph.

Remember, modern F1 tracks are designed exclusively to suit F1 cars, and maybe somebody gets a few other suggestions thrown in. However, it's only by sheer luck that other forms of racing put on good races at these tracks, and if not, tough.

[Purist]

As for the Pacific Northwest, as Pacific Raceways probably isn't in for a major refurbishment, Portland is it. That's fine.

I have my usual concerns with the chicane on the front side. Also, the changes at Turn 7 could be problematic, because they intentionally made the entry wider than the exit. It's just poor design to add things that encourage dive bombs and spear jobs. The other tricky part with the re-work at Turn 7 is that it lengthens the run into Turn 8, making that corner faster and "tighter". Even before the changes, Turn 8 was the scene of some traffic tie-ups, especially in wet conditions.

I think that covers most of the bases. As for Brazil, I don't see Bernie letting IndyCar in at Interlagos, and I don't see IndyCar particularly wanting the lap time comparisons, either. If they can go back to Sao Paulo or Brasilia pans out, alright; otherwise, look at Curitiba or Goiania.

[Deleted]

Mont Tremblant.

Hell, bring anything (televised) to Mont Tremblant. It deserves to survive as non club track.

[BudLightJaguar]

Having a race or two in the Nortwest would also be a good direction weather-wise. The problem with the Southern/Mid-Atlantic USA and part of the Northeast is that those states lie on a humid subtropical climate zone. That makes the area prone to thunderstorms (Petit Le Mans 2015, Grand Prix of NOLA 2015, Sebring 2016...)

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by BudLightJaguar

Having a race or two in the Nortwest would also be a good direction weather-wise. The problem with the Southern/Mid-Atlantic USA and part of the Northeast is that those states lie on a humid subtropical climate zone. That makes the area prone to thunderstorms (Petit Le Mans 2015, Grand Prix of NOLA 2015, Sebring 2016...)

This is true. Couple things, however; its rained at every PLM, and absolutely flooded at a couple, but just only during the race in 2015 and 2009. Percentage wise, you'll generally have beautiful weather, but as the saying goes: "when it rains, it pours". And it just happens that the majority of the population lives in this area.

Portland and Canada only 2 options for NW and I don't think they'll take 1. Right now, it looks like a good spilt based on regions but I am all for something in the NW.

[rwintle]

On the other hand, the Pacific Northwest is also notoriously rainy... not quite like those Road Atlanta deluges of recent memory, though.

Chiana mentioned Mont Tremblant - I would love to see that (heck, I'd love to see *any* major racing series there). I suspect though that the local municipal noise regulations/complainers, lack of surrounding infrastructure, and required safety upgrades might make it a non-starter. I've also heard that spectator areas are very limited (maybe someone who knows can weigh in on this?).

It is a spectacular track and setting, however, and might make for some very interesting racing.

It seems likely that the Quebec fans would come in droves.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by rwintle

On the other hand, the Pacific Northwest is also notoriously rainy... not quite like those Road Atlanta deluges of recent memory, though.

Chiana mentioned Mont Tremblant - I would love to see that (heck, I'd love to see *any* major racing series there). I suspect though that the local municipal noise regulations/complainers, lack of surrounding infrastructure, and required safety upgrades might make it a non-starter. I've also heard that spectator areas are very limited (maybe someone who knows can weigh in on this?).

It is a spectacular track and setting, however, and might make for some very interesting racing.

It seems likely that the Quebec fans would come in droves.

I have a Portland resident cousin that I visited recently and he likened his "raincoat" to a long sleeve t shirt . It's apparently likes drizzle a lot.

I recall the Mont Tremblant CART race being goos back in 2007. What's the deal with Three Rivers? (I'm not about to look up or attempt the French spelling).

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Nascar Cup does 100 mph / 160 km/h average at Martinsville, which is a bit slower than Road America.

Originally Posted by Purist

NBU38, really? Qualifying averages at Road America should be north of 140-mph.

I meant that Nascar Xfinity does 110 mph at Road America, sorry for my poor writing.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

What's the deal with Three Rivers? (I'm not about to look up or attempt the French spelling).

www.gp3r.com

They have two weekends of racing:

o- August 5-7: FIA Rallycross, AMA Supermoto, Formula Drift Canada.
o- August 12-14: Nascar Canada, Canadian Touring Car Championship, IMSA Lites.

[Purist]

Trois Rivieres has some definite complications, not least of which, it doesn't have any history, or at least not recent history, of large-displacement, open-wheel racing cars running the course.

It's at the short end of things to be considered for Indy Cars, at 1.521 miles. There would be real concern over the width of Turn 3 (Porte Duplessis). The pit lane, entry, and exit might be questioned for various reasons, like the width of the entry and exit and the tightness of the entry.

The front stretch isn't very long, making forming up the field for the start difficult, and also, the run to Turn 1 is quite short, so the field will still be rather tightly bunched for Turns 1, 2, and 3. Depending on the impact of the downforce these cars make, and the speed carried through Turn 7, on the approach to Turn 8, could be much higher than anticipated, and much quicker than what run-out there is was designed to provide for at Turn 8.

For reference, Trois Rivieres is about the same length as the 1998-2001 CART street circuit in Houston. Both have 10 or so recognized corners. However, the pole record at Houston was in the 93-mph bracket, and I'd guess GP3R (to use a known abbreviation) could well see a pole lap in the 105-mph bracket. Even so, the back straight at Houston was significantly longer than anything at the Quebec circuit.

There's a Trois Rivieres onboard lap video I've seen with a lower formula car; the Turn 3-5 stretch is 11 seconds on the throttle, Turn 5-7 is 9 seconds, and the front stretch (Turn 9, through 10, to Turn 1) is about 7.5 seconds. So, they will be even shorter, in duration, for an Indy Car to traverse.

I'd think the best overtaking point is Turn 5, followed by Turn 7 (depending on mid-corner speed), and then Turn 1, probably. The field is going to be spread out some coming off of T3 though, and you don't have much space after Turn 10 to set up for Turn 1. If T7 is too quick, there won't really be enough space/time to set up a pass into the Turn 8 hairpin. These cars don't get enough punch out of the corner to make it likely that you'd be able to throw one up the inside coming off of T8 and into Turn 9, and if you blow it there, you may eat the pit wall on the outside.

In short, Trois Rivieres is a nice little circuit, but I'm not sure it's the right place for Indy Cars to be whizzing around.

[fieldodreams79]

Better than a football stadium parking lot, but thanks for the information and glad to hear the circuit is still active. More curious that if it was still in use.

[Yannick]

As far as possible expansions into additional markets are concerned, Portland looks indeed to be the only suitable track in the Pacific Northwest, as well as Montreal is the only other suitable track in Canada. The Fort Erie/Niagra Falls oval is still too far away from completion to consider it for next year.

However, if the F1 race at Port Imperial/New Jersey ever gets off the ground, IndyCar better be the support race on Saturday after qualifying because this way, the series can get exposure to both the NYC crowd and the international crowd which would be flying in for the race. And a great circuit it would be as well.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Yannick

As far as possible expansions into additional markets are concerned, Portland looks indeed to be the only suitable track in the Pacific Northwest, as well as Montreal is the only other suitable track in Canada. The Fort Erie/Niagra Falls oval is still too far away from completion to consider it for next year.

However, if the F1 race at Port Imperial/New Jersey ever gets off the ground, IndyCar better be the support race on Saturday after qualifying because this way, the series can get exposure to both the NYC crowd and the international crowd which would be flying in for the race. And a great circuit it would be as well.

There hasn't been anything about the New Jersey GP for ages. Bernie seems more interested in having another GP in Vegas.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/123541

[rwintle]

Originally Posted by Yannick

As far as possible expansions into additional markets are concerned, Portland looks indeed to be the only suitable track in the Pacific Northwest, as well as Montreal is the only other suitable track in Canada. The Fort Erie/Niagra Falls oval is still too far away from completion to consider it for next year.

However, if the F1 race at Port Imperial/New Jersey ever gets off the ground, IndyCar better be the support race on Saturday after qualifying because this way, the series can get exposure to both the NYC crowd and the international crowd which would be flying in for the race. And a great circuit it would be as well.

Has F1 ever allowed IndyCar (or its previous incarnations) to run as a support race? Legitimate question, I don't know the history. But it seems unlikely now, doesn't it?

Flip question - would IndyCar see this as a positive, being a support race? I agree the benefit to IndyCar could be immense, but I can't see them taking on that role, somehow.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by rwintle

Has F1 ever allowed IndyCar (or its previous incarnations) to run as a support race? Legitimate question, I don't know the history. But it seems unlikely now, doesn't it?

Flip question - would IndyCar see this as a positive, being a support race? I agree the benefit to IndyCar could be immense, but I can't see them taking on that role, somehow.

Never and I doubt very much if Bernie would be happy with both series racing at the same venue on the same weekend.

[HighParker]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

... could be Vancouver, Calgary or Montreal...

A street race in Calgary is the only one I know of that's had any real discussion.
http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...y-indycar-race

[Yannick]

Originally Posted by rwintle

Has F1 ever allowed IndyCar (or its previous incarnations) to run as a support race? Legitimate question, I don't know the history. But it seems unlikely now, doesn't it?

Flip question - would IndyCar see this as a positive, being a support race? I agree the benefit to IndyCar could be immense, but I can't see them taking on that role, somehow.

It seems unlikely indeed that they go for being a support race, mainly because of ego. Yet, if they can jump over this shadow, my guess is Bernie would accept them because these cars would be slower around the course than his own F1 as Port Imperial is a street circuit.
I'd say this would be win-win for both parties involved and no loss of face would occur whatsoever. Hey, maybe even Honda could help building a bridge between both parties as they are involved in both series?

But for now, this is just as much a pipe dream as the whole "American GP" with the NYC skyline in the backdrop. I'd watch it on TV, though.