MSA Formula 2016 Thread

[BtccLee]

It seems a glaring omission but till now there is no MSA Formula thread.

Entries wise I think we should see:

3x Carlin

3x Fortec

3x Double R

3x Scorpio (Maybe)

3x TRS Arden

3x JTR

2x JHR

2x MBM (Seemed stable at the end of 2015, possible expansion)

2x Richardson Racing (Can’t see Louise staying on)

2x SWB (Stuck with one for most of season, have potential)

2x Falcon (Not sure if they have a third chassis)

I make that 27, which leaves five chassis. interesting to see if we have a new team or two, or if any of the smaller teams expand.

Thoughts. rumours, hearsay people...

[kotkot]

Dan Zelos tested with JHR and his mentor is the team boss. Devlin DeFrancesco joined the Carlin academy this year planning to step up in 2016. Jamie Caroline also tested the car.

[pimmy]

I enjoyed last season. Pretty solid overall, with the exception of that race at Silverstone.

With this series and BRDC F4 no longer being aimed at the same level of drivers, I expect to see some more entries.

[BtccLee]

Is MSA Formula in big trouble already?

Barely any drivers confirmed, things are not looking good from the outside.

What is going on?

[Formulahistory]

It looks like BRDC F4 is better than MSA Formula and the focus is on that

[BtccLee]

Originally Posted by Formulahistory

It looks like BRDC F4 is better than MSA Formula and the focus is on that

Yeah but where have the karters gone, the Ginetta Juniors etc

Seven so far is a major concern in my book, will they crack twenty... Will they even crack fifteen...

[10TENTHS]

Arden appear to be testing someone new (see car 11): https://twitter.com/ASimmonsFdez/sta...42020735369216

[kotkot]

This time last year we had five names - there is no need to be worried. One of the bigger British karting talents is already there in Quinn, we'll see if Fewtrell and perhaps MacDonald joins in (the latter is a wild guess).

As for the Ginettas, DeFrancesco is there, Zelos and Caroline were both testing and working towards a seat, Floersch will do ADAC F4. Proctor goes to the Clio Cup.

[BtccLee]

Originally Posted by 10TENTHS

Arden appear to be testing someone new (see car 11): https://twitter.com/ASimmonsFdez/sta...42020735369216

Yeah but they've confirmed drivers.

Carlin, JHR and Fortec also supposedly running four (as I imagine will Double R). But the big problem this year is that the drivers ain't biting. Then the issue for the smaller teams.

[pericu]

Originally Posted by Formulahistory

It looks like BRDC F4 is better than MSA Formula and the focus is on that

What do you mean for 'better'?
I don't think the series is in trouble, we are still on january...7 drivers confirmed at this stage is not too bad.
I think it is the brdc f4 who could be in a big trouble if the regionals f3 come back soon by the FIA...(you know how FIA acts with all non-FIA series)

[BtccLee]

What I was told, by a normally reliable source, was that "There is no interest from drivers, and teams are struggling to fill seats."

Also that even though there is a lot of testing, deals are a lot harder to come by.

So seven maybe better but there seems, apparently, to be no momentum.

[Formulahistory]

Originally Posted by pericu

What do you mean for 'better'?

I think there is room for just one series on that level and it seems like the most promising driver go to BRDC F4 instead of MSA Formula.

[kotkot]

They are not on the same level anymore with the upgraded BRDC F4 car, which is why you can see quite a lot MSA drivers graduating to it. It's not a sideways move, it's a way of preparing for F3. A national alternative to Formula Renault 2.0s.

[Roninho]

A talented driver should be able to jump straight from MSA f4 into F3. No need to make a step in between. And a talented karter should be able to jump into the new brdc car without msa f4 experience.

I don't have a preference for one, but basically the 2 series massively overlap.

[kotkot]

Based on 2015, a year in entry-level racing is not necessarily enough to do well in FIA F3. Stroll struggled so badly in the first half of the season he is still labelled as a crash kid no matter how much he matured. Maini and Boccolacci struggled just as much as karting graduates Ilott or Lorandi but there should be no doubt they are a lot better than how they did.

So, based on that, what should last year's top F4 drivers do? Spending another year in a Formula-4 series sounds like a waste but if they move to FIA F3, they have to prepare for their reputation to take a hit. No wonder most of this year's F4 graduates are connected to Red Bull one way or another (Kari, Beckmann, Newey). This is where championships like BRDC F4 or Eurocup come into the picture since you can spend a year there, get used to more power and still deliver eye-catching results. That way you can avoid bad results which might drive the sponsors away. It's all about money...

Bottom line is, if two championships have cars with different power they will never fully overlap even if they both count as stepping stones to F3.

[cameronpoe]

Originally Posted by kotkot

Based on 2015, a year in entry-level racing is not necessarily enough to do well in FIA F3. Stroll struggled so badly in the first half of the season he is still labelled as a crash kid no matter how much he matured. Maini and Boccolacci struggled just as much as karting graduates Ilott or Lorandi but there should be no doubt they are a lot better than how they did.

So, based on that, what should last year's top F4 drivers do? Spending another year in a Formula-4 series sounds like a waste but if they move to FIA F3, they have to prepare for their reputation to take a hit. No wonder most of this year's F4 graduates are connected to Red Bull one way or another (Kari, Beckmann, Newey). This is where championships like BRDC F4 or Eurocup come into the picture since you can spend a year there, get used to more power and still deliver eye-catching results. That way you can avoid bad results which might drive the sponsors away. It's all about money...

Bottom line is, if two championships have cars with different power they will never fully overlap even if they both count as stepping stones to F3.

There are no sponsors in the UK and virtually none in Europe, , as the South American economies are in difficulty , along with Russia having economic difficulties and also sanctions then it will be lean times for the sub top level single seater seater teams I think in each category which is a real Shame as there are lots of great people involved..

[Roninho]

Originally Posted by kotkot

Based on 2015, a year in entry-level racing is not necessarily enough to do well in FIA F3. Stroll struggled so badly in the first half of the season he is still labelled as a crash kid no matter how much he matured. Maini and Boccolacci struggled just as much as karting graduates Ilott or Lorandi but there should be no doubt they are a lot better than how they did.

So, based on that, what should last year's top F4 drivers do? Spending another year in a Formula-4 series sounds like a waste but if they move to FIA F3, they have to prepare for their reputation to take a hit. No wonder most of this year's F4 graduates are connected to Red Bull one way or another (Kari, Beckmann, Newey). This is where championships like BRDC F4 or Eurocup come into the picture since you can spend a year there, get used to more power and still deliver eye-catching results. That way you can avoid bad results which might drive the sponsors away. It's all about money...

Bottom line is, if two championships have cars with different power they will never fully overlap even if they both count as stepping stones to F3.

First of all, my point was not that people shouldn't go to BRDC f4. I can understand in the current ladder system that a driver with 1 year experience in MSA (&some succes) now moves ''up'' to BRDC and also understand that it's probably to early to move to F3. So i do not disagree with you on that.

However, my point was that looking at the junior ladder imo there is no need for a class between F4 and F3, and i feel in the long run MSA and BRDC will only hurt each other.

If we look at a bit longer period then just 2015, and take a look at the past decades you'll see that:
- A talent with no experience can jump straight into a ~100-150 hp car.
- most talented drivers need 2 years in an entry level class before they go to F3.
- 2 years in a 100-150 hp car is enough to train talents for F3. I mean for decades drivers went from a ~110 hp formula ford into F3, with success.

That all points at a lack off a need for a class between entry level and f3. 2 years in MSA should be more then enough for a talent to jump into F3. BRDC is a more powerfull car so yes that would indeed be helpfull in training, however in the long term imo the negative effects on grid sizes and talent spread over 2 classes outweights the step up in power.

This isn't an issue yet (with both classes probably ending up with grids in the 20s), however once a british f3 like championship returns imo it's just a matter of time before one of the 2 championships will die.

[10TENTHS]

Jack Butel confirmed with JHR: http://msaformula.com/jack-butel-lan...16/?tr=548&sr=

[JD Media]

Ross Martin to race for Fortec.

[10TENTHS]

http://kartlink.com/2016/01/18/fks-c...formula-drive/

Interesting, I didn't know FKS had a scholarship program.

[Formulahistory]

MSA Formula
Carlin: James Pull, Devlin DeFrancesco, Jamie Caroline (?)
TRS Arden: Rafa Martins, Luis Leeds, Jack Martin, Ayrton Simmons
JHR: Jack Butel, Sennan Fielding (?), Dan Zelos (?)
Double-R: Sandy Mitchell (?), Enaan Ahmed (?)
Fortec: Alex Quinn, Ross Martin, James Pull (?)
SWB: Jack Butel (?)
Joe Tandy: Daniel Baybutt (?)
MBM: Toby Sowery (?)
Richardson: Luise Richardson (?), Greg Holloway (?)
Falcon: Darius Karbaley (?)

[fergus_r]

Jack Butel will race with JHR and has secured Yuasa as a major sponsor.

[tator2001uk]

Baybutt I think is a No
Karbaley I think a yes

[gomick]

Zane Goddard has signed with RR - he came 9th in Oz F4 in 2015...

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Jamie Caroline will race for Jamun, and Sennan Fielding has returned with SWB for yet another year in this tier of motorsports. 2 very talented drivers, not sure the teams are quite up there but I can't see that stopping either from challenging for a top 5 in the championship at the very least.