The term PROTOTYPE

[LouisTheShark]

Term: pro·to·type

1 : an original model on which something is patterned
2 : an individual that exhibits the essential features of a later type
3 : a standard or typical example
4 : a first full-scale and usually functional form of a new type or design of a construction (as an airplane)

If you read the Merriam Webster definition of this term, it seems to me it doesn't apply to any car in any series in auto racing.

[billnchristy]

no, they should really be called expirimentals or something along those lines...

[BobN]

I like it, Daytona Experimental. Seems more to the point.

[gttouring]

eNTRY #4 and #2 fits the bill very well with modern Racing-

2 : an individual that exhibits the essential features of a later type (all LMP's and GTPs- and Formula cars)

4 : a first full-scale and usually functional form of a new type or design of a construction
*exactly a full scale functional form of a new design of a construction (as in LeMans Prototype)
Daytona Prototype fits entry #3 well as they are all a typical example of a Daytona SportsRacer based on the Daytona Prototype Regulations.
Good eye for this one Louis. But it will never let the argument die in many's eyes.
I personally and i believe rightfully say that the Daytona Prototypes are exactly that and they are growing from ugly ducklings to graceful Racers now as we see more body shapes enter the fray- the tube frame doesn't bother me anymore, the power output does, but that can be remedied easily.

[krt917]

And does the term not originate from a time when the quicker Sportscars were expected (in theory at least) to result in some form of 'production' unit?

[Aysedasi]

This seems very much akin (to me, at least) to all of the debate we had weeks back about the term "GT". I don't think either can have any specific dictionary definition that we will all recognise and apply.

[gttouring]

well prototype has 4 entries to choose from!
"GT" well isn't really defined well at all

[slicktsax]

oh who cares the about what the actual meaning of prototype is, most of us know it means that it is the first of something. the top sports cars have been called prototypes for 50 years, why worry about the actual definition now. besides what would u have them called

[Tim Northcutt]

I think the DPs meet the definition of "prototype"....the connotations that anyone else wants to attach to them is their own personal preference......

[Fogelhund]

Originally posted by LouisTheShark
Term: pro·to·type

If you read the Merriam Webster definition of this term, it seems to me it doesn't apply to any car in any series in auto racing.

In fact, it would be much easier to argue that perhaps GT's are closer to being a "prototype" under the pure definition of the word. Trying new parts, testing their performance and durability, to see if they are worthy of being put on the next road car. How many racing parts tested on Porsche GT "Prototypes" have ended up on their road cars over the years. Of course, many have.

It is one of those terms that continues to be used for a top class, despite the fact that the cars are well and truely far from where the term was originally used.

Perhaps LeMans Sports Racer might be a better term. Or LeMans Group 5 or Group 6? Prototype has a more romantic tone to it though, doesn't it.

[jhansen]

Don't you think that Audi has applied some of its lessons learned to their road cars? I would suggest that they have. Factory backed teams are always gathering information that can be used in small or large ways in their production cars. Its not purely for marketing efforts, although that certainly plays a large part.

[pirenzo]

Doesn't it stem from the 60's?

When manufacturers entered supposedly road going cars for Le Mans, calling them the prototypes of the real thing that was yet to come. They did this to justify ever more expensive and "racing car" type entries. The name has just stuck for all cars that are basically non road going entries.

So the definition of a sportscar prototype is really at Ferrari 330, or a Ford GT40 or a Porsche 908, or something along those lines.

[pirenzo]

You could also say that the original GT1s (McLaren F1s, Vipers, Venturis, F40s) were GTs, and that the Mercedes and Porsche cars that came after those were actually prototypes, and not really eligible for the GT1 class in a way.

[PascaLM]

Proto is coming from the greek "Prôtos" which means "first".
A prototype is supposed to be the first model of a production.
For us, it's a model introducing new technologies or responding to specific rules.
A "grand-tourisme" car is already built in a mass production.

[billnchristy]

Entry: experimental
Function: adjective
Definition: exploratory
Synonyms: beginning, developmental, empirical, experiential, first stage, laboratory, momentary, on approval, pilot, preliminary, preparatory, primary, probationary, provisional, speculative, temporary, tentative, test, trial, trial-and-error, unconcluded, under probation, unproved

There are some nice alternatives to Prototype and Expirimental

Example:
" The Le Mans Trial-and-Error 900s sure are running strong today."

Well, fits for some teams at least.

[Bob Riebe]

Why not call them what they were called for decades, at least the ones without roofs--sports racers. Actually I think that term was used until very recently.

[Fab]

Originally posted by PascaLM
Proto is coming from the greek "Prôtos" which means "first". A prototype is supposed to be the first model of a production.

Impressive sources !

Pascal gave precisely the french definition of prototype : first and only. We use it for lots of things (buildings industry at least).

But I think that the topic is focused on sportcars, and I have no source for that : a car that can't be street legal ? :confused:

[captain crunch]

Open-top prototypes are, to my mind, what current F1 cars would look like if others had followed the mercedes streamliners in the 1950s. Anyone agree?

[Dauntless]

Actually, I like the term "Prototype" as it is applied to racing cars. Every field of endeavor has its own characteristic vocabulary, and racing is no different. Hence, we have settled on generally accepted names for (among other things) broad classes of cars.

For instance, there is no logical link between the term "Formula Car" and an open wheel single-seater, but everyone in racing knows that's what it means. Likewise for Touring Cars and Sports Racers. Use those terms and every one had a pretty clear idea of what you are talking about. The term "Prototype" isn't any different. Use the term and everyone knows you are referring to a closed wheel, closed top, two-seater that doesn't necessarily resemble any particular road car.

[Osella]

Originally posted by Dauntless
[B]The term "Prototype" isn't any different. Use the term and everyone knows you are referring to a closed wheel, closed top, two-seater

forgive my pedantry, but closed top??

[Dauntless]

Originally posted by Osella
forgive my pedantry, but closed top??

Pedantry forgiven...but yes, generally!

As in LMP...and GTP. When IMSA chopped the tops off the Prototypes in 1993(?) they felt compelled to change the name in recognition that they were no longer what the racing public considered Prototypes, and invented the name WSC.

But there aren't any name police here. If you wish to call open top cars Prototypes, I'm confident we can figure it out...

[bernard b]

Originally posted by billnchristy
Entry: experimental
Function: adjective
Definition: exploratory
Synonyms: beginning, developmental, empirical, experiential, first stage, laboratory, momentary, on approval, pilot, preliminary, preparatory, primary, probationary, provisional, speculative, temporary, tentative, test, trial, trial-and-error, unconcluded, under probation, unproved

There are some nice alternatives to Prototype and Expirimental

Example:
" The Le Mans Trial-and-Error 900s sure are running strong today."

Well, fits for some teams at least.

don't know why, all this makes me think of the Lister

[Tim Northcutt]

Fits Team Nasamax even better....

[BobN]

Originally posted by Dauntless


But there aren't any name police here. If you wish to call open top cars Prototypes, I'm confident we can figure it out...

With the exception of LouisTheShark, It would appear that that is exactly what he had in mind by starting this tread.

I watch Rennie's race yesterday. Nice job by Rennie, but almost more impressive was getting the car to roll on four wheels at all. Did I hear correctly that it was put together from parts of four other cars? Nice job by Rennie's crew in not only putting a car on the grid after the crash but to putting a competitive one out there.

[jhansen]

An argument about semantics is quite silly. But, I suppose if you wanted to you could take this issue up with ACO and ALMS, as they used the term LMP900 and LMP675. However, if we want to be anal, Winston Cup cars(soon to be Nextell Cup) are not exactly "stock" cars either.