Winners and Losers - St. Pete

[GP Racer]

Winners -

1 - The IRL, for proving to everyone that they can draw the big fan numbers, and for putting on a great show.

2 - The cars, for not only performing flawlessly, but they looked and sounded great doing it.

3 - AGR, what can you say? Not only did they come in first through fourth, but they promoted this race and made it a great success.

Losers -

1 - The Ganassi drivers, who were all running in the top 5 near the end, but blew it when it really mattered!

2 - Franchitti, for taking out my favorite, Scott Sharp (it's a personal one! haha)

3 - Scheckter, it maybe time to go!

Who are your winners and losers?

[drewdawg727]

Winners -

1. Dan Wheldon...for proving that he can race on a road course and be a victor because of it.

2. AGR - for putting their cars 1 - 4

3. The fans...for having a great turnout for this race and hopefully getting some more people hooked

Losers -

1. Ganassi, especially Ryan Briscoe, for his poor sportmanship at the end

2. Helio Castroneves...for ruining a perfectly good race for himself by crashing out

3. Chevy...just can't put it right lately at all

[thebear]

Originally Posted by drewdawg727

Losers -

2. Helio Castroneves...for ruining a perfectly good race for himself by crashing out

Not only that but the way he did it. There was no room going into the r/h turn and he caught up to poor Foyt, bounced off the curb on the left and into Foyt before the exit of the l/h portion of the chicaine. I thought that AJ (Sr) was quite "reserved" in his comments. That of course is likely to change when he sees the tape.

[marcus]

yeah i would agree with that summary on helio , but at the same time it was a huge shame for him i thought he had a good chance today.


Winners.

St petersburg - for an excellent event

Indycar - for making the transition very well

Wheldon - For jumping on Kanaan and passing him

Briscoe - showing that he is a fast driver (allthough at the end it all went wrong with inexperience I guess)


Losers

ESPN For the terrible commentators Larry Rice and his mate (Im gonna say this every race I think)

Paul dana - for not even bothering to show up

everyone - for letting AGR completely whoop them



thats about it really

[mac]

Originally Posted by marcus

Briscoe - showing that he is a fast driver (allthough at the end it all went wrong with inexperience I guess)

Don't forget, as a test driver Ryan did not race wheel-to-wheel with anyone in 2004. Not making excuses, but it is something to be noted.

The key to take away from the race for Briscoe is that he was FAST and will be a hot competitior in the other two road race events.

[marcus]

yeah thats right mac , it was just inexperience i think that let him down , he never raced last year and these cars are new to him and perhaps it was a bit too much for him.

BUT I can guarentee he learnt a heck of a lot this weekend and will be back bigger and stronger because of it

[Tenoch]

Biggest winner by far was Dan Wheldon, Tony thought he had gotten away with the leed after the Bricoe incedent and little behold wheldon came out in front. I was digging what the Thomases were doing up until the wheel came off. (not literally)

Biggest loser was me cause I fell sleep half way into the race, yet woke up right before the whole briscoe kanaan crash.

[evo]

Winners - 1. Michael Andretti. Not only does his Indycar team sweep the top 4 positions but his son wins the MIPS race in spectacular fashion.
2. The IRL for doing an excellent job on the streets for the first time, and making one of the most exciting street races I've seen in a while.

Losers - 1. Ganassi for not putting tyres on Briscoes car in the last stop. If he had fresh tyres I believe he would have been able to drive away from Tony.
2. Some of the drivers who crashed looked very amateurish.
3. TSN for wrecking the coverage again.

[MickAU]

Originally Posted by marcus

Losers

ESPN For the terrible commentators Larry Rice and his mate (Im gonna say this every race I think)

Totally agree mate, you would have seen the coverage I just watched, how out of touch are they? I hate Larry Rice's slow old voice and Derek Daley, I thought he was better.

As for inexperience on Briscoe's part...well that's a big call, especially considering his efforts in Euro F3.

WINNERS
*Wheldon - for beating Kanaan
*Briscoe - showed he will be a force (why oh why cant we have more IRL road races??)
*The crowd - Proving if you give them something unique people will turn up and watch
*The track - reminded me a bit of the Canberra Street race, so tight, although looked a damn sight warmer (one for all you Aussies!)
*Wade Cunningham - Not an IRL driver (yet), but should have beaten Marco Andretti in the IPS race - one hell of a nice guy and deserves every success he is having

LOSERS
*Danica Patrick - was looking good until the problem arose, a shame
*Kanaan - the move on Briscoe was never on
*AJ Foyt IV - What was he doing?
*ESPN - Just again for their awful, terribly unresearched, mistake riddled, no proper pit interviews, poor sound international coverage

[mac]

Originally Posted by MickAU

LOSERS
*Kanaan - the move on Briscoe was never on
*AJ Foyt IV - What was he doing?

Got to disagree on both of these. I'm as big a Briscoe fan as anyone, but I thought Tony had the move done and dusted. Shame Ryan didn't see him.

And I didn't have a problem with AJ - it was a very optimistic attempt by Helio at that part of the track.

evo, you are right about the tyres. But would Briscoe still have been in front if they had taken the time to change the tyres?

[mac]

Actually, I've just had another look at "The Incident" very closely.

I suspect you could have a point about Kanaan - I am not convinced he would have made the corner had Briscoe not been there.

Perhaps Briscoe doesn't deserve the slating he's been getting, and maybe Mr Kanaan should take a quick peek inside his own helmet as to what happened there. I certainly don't think that he is as free of innocence as he suggests.

Maybe 60/40 Briscoe?

[rustyfan]

Considering Kanaan was pretty much fully alongside before they even started to turn into the corner I still think Briscoe have to carry the brunt of the blame - the cockpit sides can't be that high that he didn't see Kanaan's car beside him.

And perhaps Kanaan would've missed the corner, but Briscoe could then have let Kanaan slid through, turn in and then drive off while Kanaan tried to recover. Just look at Pedro de la Rosa's wildly optimistic moves during the Formula 1 race in Bahrain as a PERFECT example, where de la Rosa several times came in too hot when making a move, missed the corner and slid through, while the other car, having kept the door open when de la Rosa attacked, turned in and drove off.

So as I said before, the rear view mirrors are there for a reason and Briscoe should have used them. Because even IF Kanaan was too hot coming in they were, as said and as far as I can recall, almost fully alongside each other turning in, and Briscoe should have seen him.

IMHO, of course.

[climb]

Winners: AGR, Wheldon, IRL

Losers: Herta, Ganassis

[Snrub]

Winners:
* I'm having a tough time coming up with anything unique. I guess AGR for continuing to be dominant on a new course format.

Losers:
* Kannan: I lost a lot of respect for his dirty dive bombing on the track's corner that was the least receptive to such moves. He might be fast, but he showed his true colors and they're not pretty. The corner was too tight for Briscoe to do anything other than essentially come to a near full stop in a straight line to let Kannan go through and then carry on. He would have lost 2+ seconds doing something like that. It was Kannan who made the wildly overly optimistic moves.
* TV watchers/Commentators: I've always hated listening to Goodyear, but Gil takes it to a new level. Instead of torchering us, imagine how the race might have unfolded with Gil in a 3rd Penske car? I feel sorry for you poor Ausis if you had to listen to Derek Daley. At least you can know that everyone is getting the shaft!

MickAU: What do you mean by saying that if you proves something unique the crowd will show? How is that any different from every other street race or the street race that CC put on in '03?

[marcus]

it wasnt Derek daly (In fact i think he is a hoot and would be much better than the guy they have)

I cant remember his name but he is a shocker thats for sure.

[GP Racer]

I have to add a winner here, Team Rahal.

Meira coming in 5th, and Buddy getting 7th puts them back in the hunt for the championship. They both had a very quiet, uneventful race, and somehow they both sneeked up to a decent finish. Maybe the Ganassi boys should have tried that!

[climb]

mmmmhhh GP R, having sneeked up to such places, as you rightly say, is not a sign of a regained competitiveness IMO.

[MickAU]

Originally Posted by Snrub

MickAU: What do you mean by saying that if you proves something unique the crowd will show? How is that any different from every other street race or the street race that CC put on in '03?

It's IRL not champcar!

[Refutation]

Winners

Me-Because I kept the faith in Dan Wheldon's racing ability,He drove a clean race,not punting people,or driving stupid.I could say I told you so to some people lol

Dan Wheldon-For reason I stated above,what a drive he had,he didn't seem like he'd be in it for the win.It was even better because he's not a former CART/Champ Car guy.His own teammates were saying they were unsure of his road/street racing ability.He showed them

Bryan Herta:He finished 4th,he's doing better so far this year then Last,I'd like to see him win befor Tony or Dario do.

Buddy and Vitor:Quiet races as well finished up there good,Buddy needed a finish.Even I was feeling bad for him not finishing the first two races.

[jock25]

Winners:

1. Wheldon - for lucking in to a win that was not, on the basis of performance, deserved.
2. AGR - for a clean sweep with all four cars
3. Gannassi - for proving in the first half of the race that they have not completely forgotten how to race.

Losers:

1. Franchitti - for yet again getting all the bad AGR luck with his refuelling problems. Would have won by long way otherwise.
2. Briscoe - for establishing a bad reputation that will stick for a long while
3. Gannassi - for proving in the second half of the race that they have completely forgotten how to race.

[miamiyogi]

Originally Posted by MickAU

LOSERS
*Danica Patrick - was looking good until the problem arose, a shame

I have to disagree, she fouled up her own 5th gear- big rookie type mistake, no shame here she did it to herself...up to then she was racing strong!


*****************************
Here's mine:

BIG BIG WINNERS: Dan for winning in his hometown- instantly converting thousands of spectators into fans (one of the IRL t-shirt logo vans was completly sold out by race end)

St. Pete

Kanaan- over heard on scanner (more or less) "Guys -that- must have been some kind of made for TV moment. I am not sure what happened there, you all didn't deserve that, and we are going to push to get back up there" Tony K to crew after being ordered to last place by race control for running over a wrench in pit road.

Winners:

Andretti Green

Losers:
Besides all those mentioned in previous posts ME for not finding the free Pringles potato chip give away and paying $5 for peanuts

Tomas.....it's getting harder and harder to love you man.

[MickAU]

Originally Posted by jock25

Winners:
2. Briscoe - for establishing a bad reputation that will stick for a long while

I'm at a loss to how he established a bad reputation! If anything it was to the contrary!

As I said in another thread, you need to look at Euro F3 - both Briscoe and Kanaan's moves (Briscoe's backstraight swerve and Kanaan's punt) are nothing compared to what you'd see in a tame race in the Euro F3 Series!!

[jock25]

Whether or not it was tame compared to Euro F3 or any other junior formulae doesn't matter - IMHO you don't turn in on a rival at the apex! And this is supposed to be a top racing category, not a junior championship full of hot-heads. Briscoe knew what he was doing. It is not as if Kanaan was coming from very far back and braking way too late into the corner. Kanaan had been all over his tail in the previous corners, Briscoe knew it was coming.

If it's any consolation MickAU, i would much rather Briscoe had held on to the lead and prevented Wheldon from lucking in to that win.