Disabled Drivers

[Jinx]

Should marshals be notified at sign on about disabled drivers? There were 2 in the ETCC and neither of them were displaying disabled stickers. In training i was told that all disabled drivers displayed a sticker on there cars, so are the rules different for international stuff

[Woolley]

Officially, both drivers were able to extract themselves form the car as required by the regulations. I know Alex Zanardi is ok, but was doubtful about Jason Watt, and so warned my crew on Saturday just in case.

[anna_blakemore]

Officially, both drivers were able to extract themselves form the car as required by the regulations.

But would they be able to do it in the time allowed by the regulations? And would they have been able to have got away from a burning car?

[blueflagger]

Stickers for disabled drivers? Can someone show me what it looks like? Over here, we are supposed to be notified in the morning meeting or over the landline about disabled drivers but they often fail and we have to remind each other. I remember one conversation after a driver crashed:
Me: "Are you okay?"
Him: "Yes."
Me: "Get out of the car."
Him: "I can't."
Me: "But you're okay?"
Him: "Yes, I'm fine."
Me: "Then you have to get out of the car."
Him (angrily): "I can't!"
Me: "But we have to get you behind a barrier... oh, nevermind." as I noticed the hand controls.

Luckily, it was an early practice session so we black flagged it to get him and the car out of the way. He thought we had knew that he was a paraplegic.

A sticker on the driver's door would have made a lot of difference.

[Vicki]

Just like the Blue Badge for road cars, I think we need an easy way to identify disabled competitors. You may need to check this, but I believe the disabled sticker for a racing car is a white D on a blue background with a white border, but like I said, you should double check in case I'm wrong.

[Gnomex]

At Lydden we are well used to seeing a disabled driver, Steve Weatherley, out on circuit. Steve is an OK guy - just has to use hand controls thats all. Steve has a "disabled" sticker on his doors and I usually ask at the morning briefing that our chief marshal tells everyone that he is racing.

Incidentally, Steve won a race last year - so making him one of the few disabled drivers in the world to have done so. Good on you Steve!

[Mark Mitchell]

"Disabled" doesn't neccessarily mean the lack of/impared use of limbs.
A driver who suffers from conditions such as Diabetes would be required (Under MSA Regs)to declare himself as having a disability.

[petestenning]

As chief observer for 750 MC all of this is given to observers at our briefing, ie diabetics and disabled drivers etc. It is then the responsability of the observer to pass this on.
Ok so someone might slip through i am unaware of but this rarely happens. And yes i know we are not talking Touring cars at our meetings etc.
As far as i am aware all 750 drivers with a so called disability have stickers on the cars.
Diabetes being a medical condition not an infirmity .

[Sheila M]

Originally posted by FerrariFanatic
Just like the Blue Badge for road cars, I think we need an easy way to identify disabled competitors. You may need to check this, but I believe the disabled sticker for a racing car is a white D on a blue background with a white border, but like I said, you should double check in case I'm wrong.

Are you sure you're only 14?

Blue Book (E.2.11.4) states:

"Any driver or co-driver/navigator who has any medical condition or disability or who is currently on anti-coagulant thereapy should declare this at the time of entering. Such information to be solely for the use of the Chief of medical services in the event of an accident.

Those competing in accordance with 2.11.2 should carry a white "D" on a blue background, which will be issued by the MSA on the instructions of the MSA's Medical Consultant, on the door closest to the disabled occupant, or adjacent to the side numbers of a single-seater, to altert marshals in the case of an incident"

Incidentally I have seen disabled stickers on a car where there is no apparent disability. On asking the driver he told me he was diabetic.

[Peter Harding]

Real can of worms. I have seen (regularly) a driver with artificial leg who is noyt required to have sticker on car.
Sticker only has to be on drivers side, so only half the marshals will know.
There is no info on the licence to show that a driver is disabled so chiefs may not know to tell marshals.
It's a lot to do with the PC brigade making sure no stigma is attached to disability. Thats obviously much more important than safety.
Sorry - I went into one for a moment. Despite my comments, I don't know of any situationm thats actually caused a problem yet.

[Vicki]

Sheila M, yes I am only 14. I was looking into disability in motorsport and one of the websites I went on was telling its members about getting these badges and it told you what it looked like. I hope that's cleared things up for people.

[mark_l]

Originally posted by Sheila M

Those competing in accordance with 2.11.2 should carry a white "D" on a blue background, which will be issued by the MSA on the instructions of the MSA's Medical Consultant, on the door closest to the disabled occupant, or adjacent to the side numbers of a single-seater, to altert marshals in the case of an incident"

What happens if the driver of a saloon pulls up and the drivers door is furthest from the marshals, how can they tell if he is disabled when he is only required to have the sticker on one side of the car.

[Gnomex]

Originally posted by mark_l
What happens if the driver of a saloon pulls up and the drivers door is furthest from the marshals, how can they tell if he is disabled when he is only required to have the sticker on one side of the car.

A very good point.

Could those that have contact with the MSA bring it to their attention please.

[james baggie]

So how come the guys in the ETCC didn't display any signs of being disabled?

[blueflagger]

Thanks everyone. I'm going to bring this to the attention of my club's technical advisory board over here, as well as to ACCUS, which is the ASN for the US and see if we can get some action on it.

[Liam34]

So how come the guys in the ETCC didn't display any signs of being disabled?

Well, the ETCC are not under the control of the MSA, so they must have a different set of rules.

We were told on Sunday morning that both ETCC drivers were capable of getting themselves out of the car's.

[james baggie]

We were told on Sunday morning that both ETCC drivers were capable of getting themselves out of the car's.

They might have both been able to get out of the car, but i agree with Anna, could they have gotten away from the car if it was burning due to there disabilities?

[BootsOntheSide]

Most people are aware of Zanardi and Watt's conditions though. In general they should display the stickers on both sides, or, at the very least, make sure every marshal is aware of the situation. As a disabled person (although, when I'm well enoguh to race, I'd be well enough to extricate myself (not that I do race)) I wouldn't want attention to be brought to it.

James, I assume you mean 'if they couldn't get out of a burning car due to their disability', although technically hand control malfunctions could cause a fire.

[Mike Cochrane]

Originally posted by Gnomex
At Lydden we are well used to seeing a disabled driver, Steve Weatherley, out on circuit. Steve is an OK guy - just has to use hand controls thats all. Steve has a "disabled" sticker on his doors and I usually ask at the morning briefing that our chief marshal tells everyone that he is racing.

Incidentally, Steve won a race last year - so making him one of the few disabled drivers in the world to have done so. Good on you Steve!

[Mike Cochrane]

Is that the Steve Weatherley who used to race speedway for Eastbourne?

[Stevespurr]

Blue Book (E.2.11.4) states

Dont the ETCC cars come under FIA rules Sheila If that is thecase then surely they come under the Yellow Book.

[Sheila M]

Originally posted by Stevespurr
Blue Book (E.2.11.4) states

Dont the ETCC cars come under FIA rules Sheila If that is thecase then surely they come under the Yellow Book.

Yes they do - the reference to the Blue Book was in response to an earlier posting about disabled stickers on cars. Never having seen a copy of the Yellow Book I haven't a clue what they say!

[Woolley]

For most of us, the only thing we want to know is 'Do we need to intervene if the otherwise undamaged car stops in the greavel trap, from where we'd usually expect the driver to head for the barriers unassisted'. I'm quite sure Zanardi can as he's pretty mobile on artificial legs. I don't think that's the case for Watt, though, who's paraplegic IIRC, and I would like to know what the official guidance is. The only instruction at Donington was Sunday morning when the question was asked and we were told that, officially, both drivers were able to extricate themselves within the time limit specified by the regulations. Certainly my crew on Saturday were not aware of Jason who's not had so much publicity as Alex

Against all of this, though, I think it's fantastic to see two such talented drivers able to continue their careers in this way, and what a great example they set. I just want to know what we need to do if it's different from the norm.

[brickkicker]

Never having seen a copy of the Yellow Book I haven't a clue what they say!

There's a first

[Cynic]

I don't think that's the case for Watt, though, who's paraplegic IIRC, and I would like to know what the official guidance is

From what I remember at the time, Jason had to undergo several tests to satisfy the FIA that he was capable of extricating himself from the awithin the time limit required. I don't know if it's still the same, but at the time he was cleared to drive anything except F3000 and F1.
I think the issue of leaving the scene of an accident is an interesting one, but it's not necessarily relevant. Ifg I driver is winded or gets a leg injury in a crash they mey need help despite being fully mobile, so maybe it's been approached from that point of view?