Michael Boak buys Rallycross Audi TT

[Peter S]

Article in north east newspaper on michael Boak......that TT is still alive and kicking!!!!


"Jarrow's Michael Boak is leading the British Clubman's Rallycross Championship in his 20-year-old VW Golf.

The 30-year-old came home eighth in a field of full British Championship entrants on Sunday at Blyton in Lincolnshire and leads the clubman event with just two rounds to go.

Boak has just bought an Audi TT and is currently modifying that ahead of next season, meaning he will miss the next round at Lydden Hill in Kent."

[BertMk2]

Oh dear.

I thought we'd seen the last of that. How did buying that seem like a good idea?

The other question that raises is what will Terry Briggs be driving next year - surely he won't still be using the 6R4? That'll be a mile off the pace with the restrictor fitted and the weight limit applied.

[Peter S]

I am not sure weather michael will run the audi in supercar or convert it into modified spec. I will try and find out.

As for Terry Briggs then the Metro was a mile off the pace at Blyton and thick plumes of black smoke coming out the back all weekend. There have been rumours going around that he could be building another spaceframed supercar!!! this time possibly based around a renault clio?? I dont know how accurate this is but this is what i was told over the weekend.

[Stevie A]

There is know way that Audi TT will ever be competitive in supercar, without some serious money being spent on it....and that just defeats the object of the whole spaceframe regs concept....a cheap way of getting into supercar!!

On the other hand i'm sure it could be turned into a relatively quick modified car. Michael would have to hike the weight up to an equivalent 3000cc - 3500cc car due to the forced induction equivalent factor but even with that, almost 500bhp, rear drive and some decent 6R4 derived brakes are good starting points. He just needs to do a bit with the handling. When cornering and braking that car always seemed to roll,flex and pitch excessively....i think if he could stiffen and tighten the car up a bit, it could be reasonably competitive. Not to mention, i bet he only paid about 10 grand for it which is peanuts for a modified car at the moment!!!

[BertMk2]

How much work is involved in converting it to a modified spec? There's got to be a fair bit surely? Is there actually a single bit of Audi TT on that car? The engine is Nissan (I think) and the body is fibreglass over an aluminium frame - how would that qualify as an Audi? I thought there was a rule in the modifieds that engine and chassis had to be from the same manufacturer? (does raise a question about that Vtec powered mini as well!)

As you say though, the problem with TT has always been the handling (never had the chance to find out if it's got any speed). 500bhp through the rear wheels is asking for trouble though! It'll never go in a straight line.

[Stevie A]

I'm not totally sure about the rules, but Chris Evans's old Tigra (which belongs to Paul Waldron), Collard's new Ford Ka, Binks' soon to arrive Mini and from what i've heard, Dresser's new Lotus are all basically a tubular spaceframe with a silhouette body on top......ie they are not based on the actual chassis of the road car, only the body shape. This is essentially what the TT is. Regarding the engine, Binks won't be building an ineligable car surely???....so i presume mixing and matching engines and chassis is ok.

I don't know what the regulations are over the location of the engine but the TT is mid-mounted and a road going TT is front engined....maybe that may have to be changed.

As i say i'm not totally sure about the rules, but we'll see what happens.

[winnie]

The engine block has to be from the same manufacturer as the body and same amount of cylinders. It has to be fitted the same end as original. If the body has not been homolagated then the engine is free (John Sampsons V8 Rover 200 for instance). You used to have to keep the original bulkhead which is the only part of Mike Turpins car that is Nova.

The scrutineers dont know the rules which is why Mike Sellar gets away with using a Hart 420 engine which is a pure racing engine and has never been homologated. There have been a few Vauvhal engined fiesta's and of course Roger Newbolds BDG and later YB powered Renault 5. Isn't some one using a Honda VETEC engine in a mini?

[Stevie A]

Thats what i thought the rules were, but all these new cars aren't actually a Ford or Vauxhall etc they are just lookalikes or kit cars or something....so what engine do you put in??? Is there anything in the rules about this??? I don't know!

I think it's James Guest or Matt Osbourne who has a Honda V-tec engine in his mini and Binks is using a 2 litre Ford Zetec in his new BMW mini.

[Peter S]

I think it is more or less a free for all. Take out the turbo engine on the tt and bingo. It is all ready 2 wheel drive so he could do what richard hill did with his supercar cossie.

as for binks then he using a 2 litre zetec engine in his mini

[KA]

Originally posted by winnie

The scrutineers dont know the rules which is why Mike Sellar gets away with using a Hart 420 engine which is a pure racing engine and has never been homologated. There have been a few Vauvhal engined fiesta's and of course Roger Newbolds BDG and later YB powered Renault 5. Isn't some one using a Honda VETEC engine in a mini?

At one time wasn't there something in the rules that specifically covered using a different manufacturer's engine in the car, other than the question of using a non-homologated body like the Sampson Rover?

You mentioned Roger Newbould's Renault 5- which did of course use a homologated (mid-engined 5 turbo) shell with a different engine, but there were a number of Renault 5's around in the early 90's, none of which had Renault engines-Ian Evans had a 2-litre Vauxhall in one, and I'm sure there were a couple of others around at one point.

I can think of several other cars around at that time which had fairly unusual engine/chassis combinations- I've got a vague recollection that it was allowed subject to a higher weight limit or something like that, but am probably imagining this....

[Stevie A]

A question to Peter S:

Will Michael Boak have to remove the turbo from the TT??? Are you not allowed forced induction with extra weight (1.7 factor). It's just Phil Collard ran a Sierra RS500 in a couple of events two years ago in the modified category and wasn't George Warren supposed to be running an Escort Mk4 Turbo at Blyton last weekend???

[BertMk2]

There have been forced induction modified cars but it does beg the question what's the difference between a modified car and a spaceframe supercar? Both 2 wheel drive, both spaceframed, both can have forced induction. What is the defining difference?

[Stevie A]

Maybe it's something that needs to be put forward to the MSA and the BRDA!!!

[Peter S]

This perhaps is a grey area in the class. I would have said yes he would have to,

Collards RS500 wasnt a turbo.....it was David Wrights ex rallycross/rallycar which had been modfified before and didnt use a turbo.

George Warrens isnt a turbo either as he runs in the Euro class in Belgium which is for Euro 2000 spec cars......he plans on racing at Lydden Hill. He said he couldnt make it to Blyton.

Sue Jefferys porsche is a classic example as that was another car that is an ex supercar converted to the modified class. That just uses a 3.4 engine which isnt a problem as it has no turbo fitted. They removed the three litre turbo engine from it. Richard Hill put in a normally aspirated engine in to his Escort as well removing the turbo

It would seem very strange if they allowed them to use turbos and would make terry briggs descion to run it in the supercar class even stranger. There are no rules online about the modified class, but will try and find out the definition tonight.

[winnie]

Mike Bourners Porsche is turbo charged, so was Richard Moroney's previous escort. I thought Collards sierra was turbo charged, and i remember Peter Harold was going to convert his beetle to 2wd and do modified.

[Peter S]

mmmm not 100% sure on this.

[Peter S]

That was only when they had a capacity split and raced seperatly.......did they not change the rules when they amalgamated all the classes?

[BertMk2]

I'm fairly sure Collards RS500 was running with a turbo - I seem to remember seeing a rather large example under the bonnet in the paddock at one of the Lydden meetings. I don't know for sure but I think there were (are?) a couple of modified Escorts that run with turbos as well (rwd only).

I thought the change made to Sue Jefferey's Porsche to convert it to a modified car was to switch from 4 wheel drive to 2 wheel drive. I could be wrong but I'm sure that's what I heard.

[chunder]

You are right guys, COllard was running a turbo. And Mike Sellar actually used a Millington Cosworth for a while last year as maybe the Scrutes found out about the Hart 420R.
If Boak was using a VeeDub in Modified, maybe he has access to VW parts. IN the same way that Bardy has access to exF2 parts for Chris Evans Micra which is basically a Sunny kit car in a Micra shell.
The rules changes completely a few years ago meaning you had to use an engine made by the manufacturer in that car, hence no more Newbould R5/Ford.
I also disagree that Terry Briggs was utterly off the pace last weekend. I have seen him go a lot worse and the car seemed to be playing up more than anything else!

[Peter S]

Evans Micra has most of the 2 litre Nissan Primera touring car gear in it. Thats why it was so expensive to build. All provided by Nissan Motorsport Europe.

And Briggs (reserve) was battling with tapscott and howlin (modifieds) in the superfinal....and the new Subaru was quicker than him. When has the Metro not played up?

[Peter S]

Ok, here is a couple of more questions.....

"The rules changes completely a few years ago meaning you had to use an engine made by the manufacturer in that car, hence no more Newbould R5/Ford."

.....so how can Binks put a Ford Zetec engine into his new Bmw Mini?

and how can terry briggs audi tt have nissan engine in it?
Or do these rules not apply to spaceframed cars?

[Upside Down Bug]

I'm not technically minded at rallycross meetings I leave that to people better qualified than I to advise me. However, I believe there used to be a rule that said if you wanted an engine from a different manufacturer you had to run with metal panels. That rule seemed to disappear from the Blue Book. Please don't take this a gospel, it's just my vague memory, but hope it helps the debate.

[Peter S]

I dont suppose anyone has a copy of the modified rules do they?

[winnie]

There was a rule about having to keep metal panels if using another engine.

I spoke to guy with a BDG starlet (can't remember mane) a few years ago and he told me they left a 2" strip of the standard front and rear wings and fixed the plastic wings to this.

I am going to look at a current Blus book over the weekend and find out.

[BertMk2]

There are a few engine/chassis combos that are definitely outside what I understood to be the rule:

Sellar - Fiesta / Hart (but possibly ford derived and therefore legal?)
???? - Austin Mini / Honda Vtec
Binks - BMW Mini / Ford Zetec
Briggs - Audi TT / Nissan (but this is a spaceframe car with no Audi parts? so I'm not sure if the rule applies in this case)

I'm not 100% sure but I think the mini/Vtec combination was allowed because there are a significant number of road going minis that have this engine conversion. Clearly a very grey area.