volunteering abroad

[roadruner]

As a newly qualified marshal, i would like to volunteer for some meetings abroad later this year. I have the paperwork from the msa but am unsure of the next step. Could somebody help with some advice. I would like to do the dtm at zandvoort

[Piglet]

Hi roadruner, you need to get consent from the MSA to Marshal abroad (not sure who deals with that now). Hopefully then someone on here can give you a contact for Zandvoort - what discipline are you?

[Eddy V]

Maybe you can PM Dutch Chap about Zandvoort, he may be able to help.
If you ever want to go to Zolder or Spa, PM me for details.

[Mike Kelly 1]

The contact at Zandvoort is Marjolijn Plikaar and her email address is secreteriaat@oca-zandvoort.nl Drop her a line and she'll put you on the marshals list.

[Mark Mitchell]

Also, good/useful Zandvoort advice could be sought from Eric Ridler and/or Sue Whitlock.
I believe both have Marshalled there many times.

[Stuart Hill]

Originally Posted by Piglet

Hi roadruner, you need to get consent from the MSA to Marshal abroad (not sure who deals with that now).

Sorry Piglet but, in my experience, whilst an MSA Grading is sometimes asked for (as proof of one's ability/grading), neither consent or permission are actually required from the MSA or any other marshalling body.

Roadrunner;
You are a volunteer and your chosen venue will either accept you on face value or maybe ask for some kind of proof as to your experience/ability.

Just find out who is the Chief Marshal and send them an email expressing your interest in joining them at whichever event you chose. They will normally be more than receptive and will gladly answer any queries you may have about how to attend your chosen meeting/meetings.
This is what I've done when marshalling in the USA and have had no problems at all.

[theracegypsy]

The MSA contact is Alan Dean-Lewis.

Although Stuart is right in that few foriegn venues actually ask to see the MSA permission letter they will usually ask to see your MSA Grading card (or "licence").
The point is that the letter is MSAs endorsement of the card when using it abroad, and technically if you don't have the letter the card is invalid in that situation. OK you think, until you are involved in an accident, and are either hurt yourself or someone else is. Unlike here, where it is not usually possible for an individual official to be sued, that can happen under other countries laws, and if you do not have the letter you could face a very difficult situation.

[blueflagger]

Too many lawyers are US(A).

[staid davenport]

Just a quicker wondering...who organises the marshals for the monaco grand prix? Doing that might be fun...! (If a little amitious...lol)

[Stoowert]

Staid - I think it's the French that sanction the marshals at Monaco, but I think they have their own club...
Bob - I think you'll find that when you sign on oversea, certainly in the USA, you are covered by the home club's insurance. At Long Beach, Vancouver & Sebring you fill out temporary memberships that are torn up at the end of the meeting - assuming you don't need to avail yourself of their services...

[blueflagger]

Stoowert - yes, you would be covered by the home club's insurance but it is usually a secondary insurance plan - it covers you only after your primary insurance plan has paid to its limit. It's a very American format.

I recommend that you be on the safe side and notify MSA of your plans and then get your MSA log signed.

Bob does so many races on this side of the pond that he joined SCCA. As my "spouse member" his dues are less than half of a regular membership and he can mantain an SCCA license as well as the MSA one.

[roadruner]

Hello Eddie,

[roadruner]

Hello Eddie,
Any information that you can give me with regard to Spa would be very much appreciated.
Regards Roadruner

[Eddy V]

Yeah right, once is enough thank you.

Send me a PM what your plans are and I'll post the replies here depending what they are.

[Bodysnatcher]

Originally Posted by staid davenport

Just a quicker wondering...who organises the marshals for the monaco grand prix? Doing that might be fun...! (If a little amitious...lol)

Monaco, ACM, closed shop, game over.

AFAIK, only gypsybob from this board has done Monaco, and he was'nt impressed.

see

http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....1&postcount=20

[Mark Mitchell]

Yep! + we're too old aren't we Al?

[Bodysnatcher]

Ok, Staid claims to be a student on his profile, so no point in telling him about the old guys that got a knockback.
Anyway, it's not our fault the ACM are shortsighted and ageist. And very French.

edit - hey, wait a mo ...don't we have anti ageist Euro legislation now - Mark there may be hope for you yet......

No, hold that thought...

No hope

[Rich D]

This Topic of working 'abroad' often comes up, and makes me ponder..

It is a real shame that there is no FIA equivalent of an International Marshal's licence, as that would remove a lot of the confusion.

For instance, our sanctioning body has several licence grades, and if you are a Basic Marshal, this is not valid for out of province events (hence the term 'aborad'). The next level up you need authorisation, then at the top levels it is valid anywhere.

There has, however, been many cases where our marshals have worked in the USA under a temporary SCCA licence, with no permission, and there seems little that our club can do to stop this.

The incident that came to mind was the son of a marshal worked Sebring under their rules, then joined us for basic training. All legal and to the rules, but he was an age where we would not let him work a 'pro' event, and so he was upset when told he could not work Mosport ALMS when he had already worked Sebring!!

We have issues with people wanting to work in Quebec -- different rules each side of the border.

This issue seems to have been taken care of from the frivers perspective with the FIA international licenses - so could this be implemented for us? Our local body issues the licence once we have attained the required proficiency, then that is valid anywhere we want to work.

Anyone know any history if this has been tried?

It does seem silly that right now local groups write rules on who can and cannot work away from home, yet the 'foreign' groups will accept people outside of those rules, usually because they have no idea what the 'home' rules are!

[blueflagger]

Rich, The US national body that reports to the FIA, ACCUS has heard discussions about a "super license" that could be used to indicate a very high knowledge and experience level but I don't think it got much further than that.

ACCUS is the US version of MSA but it operates differently, letting all member clubs issue their own standards and rules about licensing. I hold a National level license in SCCA, which is as high as they go. My USAC license gives no indication of my experience level or even my specialty. Each club has a representative on the ACCUS board and they are the ones who could make it happen. But you know what these boards are like - each person is really there to protect its club's own territory, rather than benefit the sport as a whole.

Of course, that's not the official word, but it is what I see. SCCA ain't gonna let ACCUS handle licensing, no way, no how.

[Rich D]

I'm not suggesting pushing licensing up the ladder, just the creation of an International licence that is granted by the local body (SCCA, CASC-OR etc...) but recognised worldwide. That way the local club can have some form of control over where it's members work, and all clubs worldwide can help maintain the policies of all other clubs.

[Eddy V]

Oh, surely I must have that non existing international licence then.
Oh no, I just don't give a dam what the Belgian MSA says.
I just do it.

[Stoowert]

I don't want the MSA telling me where I can, or cannot marshal, thank you very much! One of the reasons the Brits took over Poste 70 at Le Mans was the Dutch ASN told it's Marshals "Be at Zandvoort that weekend or kiss goodbye to your licence!"

Mind you, I like the idea of an internationally recognised "Marshalling Passport"

[Eddy V]

... "Be at Spa / Zolder that weekend or kiss goodbye to your licence!"

That is something I hear so often, yet nobody at the Belgian MSA does anything about it. (And I couldn't care less to be honest.)
Could that be because I know all the Chief Marshals in the UK when THEY (members of the MSA) want to come over.

Me, I marshal where I'm appreciated, hence the many trips to the UK.

[Dutch chap]

Originally Posted by Stoowert

I don't want the MSA telling me where I can, or cannot marshal, thank you very much! One of the reasons the Brits took over Poste 70 at Le Mans was the Dutch ASN told it's Marshals "Be at Zandvoort that weekend or kiss goodbye to your licence!"

Not quite what happened. It was actually the marshals club threatening it's own members.

[blueflagger]

Rich, SCCA can't issue an internationally recognized license without the approval of ACCUS and that means the other ACCUS clubs need to agree to it. Mind you, they could issue a license called "international" and set a minimum standard for it, but it won't happen - because we have too many lawyers.

Example: If I held this level license and was accepted to work at Spa or Kyalami on the strength of it and then made an utter fool of myself at the event, mightn't SCCA be liable for damages? After all, they rated me highly. Answer: possibly. After all, Goodyear lost a suit from the family of a driver who was hired for tire testing and subsequently died. Even though the family stated he knew the risk, they still won a settlement.

My problem with an SCCA license is that I must work a certain number of SCCA events to maintain the license level. Other clubs that use the same flagging and communications rules don't count. At the moment, I have to drive 5 hours or more to find an SCCA event. Working the events closer to home don't count towards my license. Working races in England, Canada or elsewhere don't count towards my license - but my license tells the other racing authorities that I should have a clue about what I'm doing. Grrr.

Sorry for the rant.

Love racing anywhere and everywhere, just hate the unworkable license standards. Good for Eddy! And Roadruner, racing is a worthwhile excuse to travel so do it!