Sainz crashes into spectators on SS11

[Hobson]

Carlos Sainz has crashed his Focus into a spectator area at a T-junction, according to www.autosport.com .

I hope nobody was killed, or severly injured. The signs don't look good as the stage was stopped for emergency vehicles to get through. Sainz managed to get to the end of the stage after being passed by Alister McRae's Hyundai.

On BBC Teletext (p361/2), 5 spectators were injured, including children.
Very sad.....

[Hobson]

A statement has been issued on www.worldrally-online.com which includes: 15 casualties, 2 air ambulances and Ford withdrawing Sainz/Moya from the Rally GB.

[R]

It's very sad when it happens of course, but if you look at how these rallies are run, with spectators standing that close and on the outside of corners, it was IMO unavoidable that something like this would happen. The questions are only where and when, not if.

[Speedworx]

Ford also withdrew Mark Higgins (sad, cos he was going well)

[R]

On a happier note, no one was seriously injured.

[wickedwitch]

[QUOTE]Rally of Great Britain Stage 11 accident report
WRC 2001-11-24

An accident involving Carlos Sainz's Ford Focus on Special Stage 11 of the Network Q Rally GB has left 13 specators injured - four seriously.

Sainz's Ford Focus left the road early in SS11, Brechfa, after cresting a rise in slippery conditions. Sainz was able to continue to the next radio post, before completing the stage. The stage was then cancelled, along with SS12.

Two adult spectators are in a serious condition in a Carmarthen hospital, but with injuries that are not considered life-threatening. Two children also remain in hospital with lower leg injuries.

"West Wales General Hospital has confirmed that they have admitted two children aged 12 and 14 with lower limb injuries; one adult has head injuries and one adult has back injuries. None of these injuries are considered to be life threatening. Nine casualties had minor injuries and will be discharged later this evening.

-www.autosport.com[\QUOTE]

[R]

I based my previous comment on what Sainz himself said in an interview yesterday - that he was happy that no one had been seriously injured. I guess it depends on what you define as "serious".

Latest from Autosport:
"Nine of the 13 spectators injured when Carlos Sainz's Ford Focus WRC left the road on Saturday's Brechfa 2 stage have been released from hospital - but a 13-year-old girl will undergo surgery on a leg injury later today (Sunday).

Two casualties, a 12-year-old boy with severe bruising and an adult who suffered head injuries, will leave hospital later today. Meanwhile, the 13-year-old girl is to undergo an operation for a lower leg injury and an adult with back injuries will stay in hospital for another night."

[Vitesse]

I hate to say "I told you so", and I'm relieved that there were no fatalities, but can I direct you all to this Gravel Trap thread from earlier this year:

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...light=Rallying

I think we can now expect to see a few more restrictions on rallying from now on ...

[R]

Thanks for bringing that up, Vitesse, I too had that thread in the back of my mind. Looking briefly through it now, I see that I have repeated some of what I said back then. I can hardly say that what happened yesterday was surprising...

[kristof14]

yeah it is dangerous i remember seein people on the inside of a hairpin actually standin out on the track to see the oncoming car and thinking "get out of the way you tits"

[Emfa]

I was so relieved to hear that no-one was really seriously injured.

Is there any truth in the report that the spectators were in a restricted area illegally?

[SJ Spode]

Without being there it's difficult to surmise, but i'd be very surprised if the spectators were standing in an obvoiusly dangerous situation.

From reports I heard a marshall's car was hit too & knowing how good the UK marshalls are it's tough to believe that they allowed folks to stand where they shouldn't. Also before each stage organiser's safety cars run through the stage and if there's safety aspects the stage does not commence. (I saw delays on stages in Spain last year whilst fans were moved from some areas).

It seems that it was just an unfortunate rallying incident, and my thoughts go out to all those involved, spectators, officials and Carlos and Luis.

[Super Tourer]

I have to confess to not being a huge rally fan - this my first ever 'rally post'!

However, it has always appeared to me that the combination of sometimes very difficult driving conditions and the close proximity of spectators was always a recipe for disaster. From what I have read and heard, it seems that Carlos found it much more slippery that he expected and subsequently couldn't slow down in time for the corner.

From some of the earlier coverage I saw, I thought that the spectators were too close to the cars on several occasions - which a: is very dangerous and b: surely very distracting for the drivers

[Liz]

I've read many quotes from rally drivers in the past expressing anger and anxiety both about the way the spectators disregard their own safety and the safety of the drivers in their attempts to get close to the cars -- in Portugual I understand they used to try to TOUCH the cars as they went by! Besides being dangerous this seems to me to be a huge distraction to the drivers who have to watch out for unpredictable people leaping in their way as well as dangerous driving conditions.

[SJ Spode]

Yes I remember a photo of Markku Alen in a Lancia GrpB car, midair over the jumps in Portugal heading straight towards a sea of people (you couldn't see the road at all), plus an incident in Colin McRae's final year for Subaru when he clipped an idiot standing on the racing line on the inside of a corner, flipping aforementioned idiot up into the air and breaking his leg.

I must admit these spectator issues are something which concerns me about Dave Richard's plans to make the WRC as popular as F1. There's no way that everyone is going to stop at home and watch on TV, so there will be more folks heading off to the rally stages. Given that these tend to be in remote locations the traffic / parking problems will make Silverstone look like a blueprint for a perfect event, and once the spectators are there, where to safely locate them will be the next thing, as will keeping them marshalled.

Unfortunately I can see a day when rallys take place in purpose built stadiums (sort of a super-duper special), but hey at least they can use the original Nurburgring for the German round - just dig up the tarmac.

[rdjones]

I was discussing the accident with my Dad last night and we decide that the format of the RAC this year was, wrong.

I know that the rally is now run for TV, which we in the UK got very little of, no Live stage and highlight put on way after 11 pm, not prime time, which is what Dave Richards wants.

In years gone by the RAC used to run Sunday to Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday. The reason for this was to keep the forests, and it worked and you would only get the hard core motorsport fan out there.

Now with the rally being run over the whole weekend, everyone and everyone is out there watching the action, which is great for the sport, but in another way it bad. I saw over the weekend over, from the little bit of coverage I saw, as I was stuck up here in Sheffield busy working on my final year uni, work, one reason for me being unable to get out and watch this year. People both standing on the stage as car came round and on the outside of the corner, which is where the most danger is.

For me the rally should go back to it's old format and run Sunday to Tuesday and if they want the large crowds they should bring back the sunday stages in such places as Chatsworth, Clumber, Donnington, Rother Vally, Harewood, Rudding Park, Weston Park, Sutton Park etc.
As I have happy memories of watching the RAC there over the years.

[ljakse]

To me it looks like any kind of racing out of closed circuts has this prolem with spectators' safety.

I still remember a video of Renault 5 in some kind of road race running into large group of spectators - there where literally people flying around. Whenever I watch that kind of racing, I wonder if those people by the track have any brain.

And I must agree with R - it wasn't the question if but when is it going to happen.

[MichaelC]

Originally posted by rdjones

For me the rally should go back to it's old format and run Sunday to Tuesday and if they want the large crowds they should bring back the sunday stages in such places as Chatsworth, Clumber, Donnington, Rother Vally, Harewood, Rudding Park, Weston Park, Sutton Park etc.
As I have happy memories of watching the RAC there over the years.

The RAC rally has an agreement where it moves around the country so that people everywhere can see it. Hence it ran up north for a few years, with Kielder Forest and so on. Then it came down to be based around Cheltenham and the Midlands, so you get Tatton Park, Donington and so on. We're currently on the second of three years in Cardiff, then it will be off somewhere else again.

[AndyF]

Originally posted by MichaelC



The RAC rally has an agreement where it moves around the country so that people everywhere can see it.

Is the Rally GB still sponsered by the RAC? As far as I am aware it is now the Network Q Rally Of Great Britain. Seems people still remember it as the RAC, although I am not sure they are involved any longer.

[BootsOntheSide]

RAC? Yeah its one of these thigns people still subconsciously say, in a similar way to people saying IndyCars in reference to the CART series, or, in football, the Endsleigh League when referring to the Nationwide League. Its kinda extra sponsorship for the RAC which maybe wasn't envisaged.

[MichaelC]

I actually thought that the RAC were the people who ran it, so it was still the RAC rally even when sponsored by 2nd User Vauxhall. Just like it always used to be the Lombard RAC Rally. An event can't have two title sponsors - or can it :confused:

[rdjones]

No, you are all right, the RAC do not sponser the Rally, that is network Q, people call it the RAC because, that is who used to organise the event. The event is now run by the MSA, who took over from the RAC as the govening body of British Motorsport a couple of years ago, when the RAC member's sold out to a private company.

[SJ Spode]

It's going to be interesting to see where the Rally moves (if anywhere)after Cardiff. Given the new compact route World Rally format it will have to be where there are large areas of forest, so Scotland perhaps, the North West / Lake District. Also Cardiff have built that SuperSpecial; will that come into the equation?

[Andy H]

Yorkshire and the N.East/Scottish Borders would be a good choice - Bring Back Kielder

[rdjones]

Well if the rally did move I, would move it to Newcastle, it is a perfect location, you could have day 1 up in Kilder, with second day being down here in Yorkshire, in the classic stage like Dalby, Wyckham, Langdale, Gale Rigg etc and the 3rd could be back in Kilder.