Should I buy a Diesel??

[rdchawk]

Hi,

I am currently looking at getting a newer larger estate car to replace my Astra, Most seem to be diesels and there are a lot of confusing talk at the moment as to whether diesel is to be bought or not due to new taxes and schemes.

Should a diesel be considered??

For ref - been looking at a Peugeot 308 SW as the boot space is massive!

[BertMk2]

It depends - the higher the mileage you do the more sense a diesel makes. If you plan on load carrying or towing then again - diesel makes sense. City driving and short journeys - no point going diesel.

The recent 'diesel is evil' stuff is ridiculous - people were encouraged to buy diesel as it was 'cleaner', now apparently all diesels runs on rendered down baby seals and emit clouds of poisonous gas the likes of which have not been seen since the first world war. I assume it's part of the push to get people to use electric vehicles (because electricity is magic and generating it doesn't have any environmental impact).

Either way - the real thing to note here is "don't buy anything French". Having said that my Pug 306 was a fantastic car (apart from the issue with the airbag warning light that stayed with the car for 150k miles despite the main dealers best efforts).

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by rdchawk

Hi,

I am currently looking at getting a newer larger estate car to replace my Astra, Most seem to be diesels and there are a lot of confusing talk at the moment as to whether diesel is to be bought or not due to new taxes and schemes.

Should a diesel be considered??

For ref - been looking at a Peugeot 308 SW as the boot space is massive!

Personally after thirty years of driving nothing but diesels I had decided never to buy another diesel before the recent change of stance on pollutants. Primarily for two reasons:

1. DPFs are the most unreliable component on just about any car and their introduction immediately dented the reliability and running costs of diesels.

2. Petrol engines (especially the electrics) have become so much more reliable that one of the major advantages of diesels (no ignition system to fail) is effectively gone.

It's also worth considering that whatever you think of the debate about the different kinds of pollution the govt and the mayor of London amongst other cities is clearly signalling that one or more of road tax, fuel duty and congestion charges will soon be increasing for diesel drivers.

[fieldodreams79]

[Adam43]

How many miles will you do? How long are you keeping the car? Where will you be driving it and on what kind of journeys?

[Akrapovic]

Not all diesels are equal, just like not all petrols are equal. So the question isn't as simple as that. Should you buy a diesel? If it's a good one yes. Despite the emissions stuff, the VW engines are brilliant diesels for long commutes. But if you drive around town, the Ford 1L Ecoboost engine is fantastic.

Best thing to do is use a calculator -

http://www.which.co.uk/reviews/cars/...sel-calculator

Punch in the details of your vehicle options and this will tell you what is cheaper.

[tim dodwell]

I personally would not touch a diesel car now, with pressure against them from the BMA (the doctors body), the EU, and many cities contemplating bans. If you need to drive to/in cities, you could face problems, and surely at some point second hand diesel car values will crash.
It would be so easy for the government to increase the road tax on them, and perhaps even on diesel fuel.
Anyway, diesel cars have extra expenses which somewhat negate the current fuel cost advantage - and petrol cars are now getting much closer on (real) mpg.
However, the health risks to us all (including those driving one) are the main reason I won't touch one.

[GORDON STREETER]

I've had a Pug 406 HDI turbo estate for about 15 years, I brought it off a customer that had the old problem of the engine running on it's sump oil after the turbo seals failed and knackered the engine.
I rebuilt an engine that I had kicking about and installed it with a new turbo.
I think with buying the car and fitting the engine it cost me about £1000 all up back then and I have used this all these years since without a single problem. It does between 50/60 mpg and will cruise all day long at 100mph and has tons of room inside. The car has absolutely no rust anywhere and is quiet at all speeds and a joy to drive and doesn't have a DPF.
The car is not worth a lot of money and there is no sense in me selling it as I don't use it much in the UK and the maintenance costs are next to nothing as I do all my own work.
I think if you can buy something like that for under a grand in good order then I would go for it, obviously if you do most of your driving in cities especially London then petrol is probably the way to go at the moment UNTIL THE POWERS THAT BE CHANGE THE GOALPOSTS AGAIN !!!
I'm fully aware that petrol is cheaper than diesel and some petrol cars do decent MPG, also the government can increase the price on diesel to deter people but seeing that most vans and all lorries/buses run on diesel then I can't see it happening for a few years.
As there will probably be a glut of used(and even new) diesel cars and estates for sale at reduced prices it may be a buyers market to get a bargain to run for a few more years !
One last thing I will add is that some diesel vehicles are a lot better than others as far as reliability and DPF problems are concerned and some are a definite no no, so get really good advice from people that work on them all the time and not some "bloke" in the pub or some "idiot" on the internet that always knows better than genuine decent mechanics !!

[GTRMagic]

Do diesel Audi models in Europe require being topped up with AdBlue to comply with emissions regs?

Its an additional 'diesel' cost that is not always thought of in a purchase...

[rdchawk]

Hi All - Thank you for your replies - I dont live or travel in a major city, so I know that covers most of the extra taxes the government are thinking of, Annual Mileage is probably about 8000 miles, Looking at cars for sale the diesels are cheaper to purchase by a good 1 or 2k and some of the cars i've looked at have better emissions so tax is around £30 mark, so again cheaper on that part, but as you guys have mentioned diesel is more economical if doing long journeys and commutes which i'm not, hence why its becoming a bit of a dilemma.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Do diesel Audi models in Europe require being topped up with AdBlue to comply with emissions regs?

Its an additional 'diesel' cost that is not always thought of in a purchase...

At the moment all the VAG vehicles pass the UK emissions and most new diesel engined cars from just about all manufacturers show zero emissions without any additives on the current MOT tests as the engines are as good as they have ever been and have DPFs fitted.
Some older ones still have the extra small tank (Peugeot/Ford/Mazda) that takes the expensive fluid that is injected into the system when you fill the main tank up and will last for years, as long as you fill the tank full every time and don't keep putting 10 quids worth in !

[Graz]

The crap against diesels recently is political opportunism. Modern diesels are efficient and clean and the torque is marvelous. DPFs are no problem if you drive a diesel the way it's intended i.e. not exclusively short or city journeys.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by Graz

The crap against diesels recently is political opportunism. Modern diesels are efficient and clean and the torque is marvelous. DPFs are no problem if you drive a diesel the way it's intended i.e. not exclusively short or city journeys.

My sentiment entirely ! ! had a Mazda 3 in today with DPF light on, 33000 miles fully serviced but retired lady driver that only potters 3 miles to town every day. Was sold the car brand new when diesel cars were the "bees knees" according to the government !!!
I think the government should refund the losses that the owners will now incur on trade in.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

At the moment all the VAG vehicles pass the UK emissions and most new diesel engined cars from just about all manufacturers show zero emissions without any additives on the current MOT tests as the engines are as good as they have ever been and have DPFs fitted.
Some older ones still have the extra small tank (Peugeot/Ford/Mazda) that takes the expensive fluid that is injected into the system when you fill the main tank up and will last for years, as long as you fill the tank full every time and don't keep putting 10 quids worth in !

That's interesting..

...the AdBlue Diesel Exhaust Fluid is sprayed into the exhaust before the catalytic converter, presumably to reduce the size/style/toxicity of the particulates into the air.

Diesel trucks down here complying with EuroV and soon to be EuroVI emissions rules are mostly AdBlue equipped...

Wonder how it would go in a diesel forklift.. if they had a cat converter... some of them will blow your head off with their fumes...

[Mike Bell]

Adblu is becoming more common on cars and vans as well as trucks. The (just about to depart) Disco 4 uses it, as do a lot of the latest big Mercs and Audis. My Vito uses it, but luckily my Volvo truck was able to achieve euro 4 without it in 2008. I don't think there is any truck without it now.

It's a quick fix to drop emissions!

[GORDON STREETER]

The main problem is that the government can at anytime change the goalposts and alter road tax/fuel prices/congestion areas/emission zones, so to keep legal we have to comply, I think I'll just stop indoors !!!

[Mike Bell]

Good plan Gordon! Cave dwelling makes a lot of sense.....

About adblu again, it's interesting reading reports in new car mags about some car in their (manufacturers provided) fleet that uses it. Usually an exec or luxury model. Most journos don't even seem to know that they will have to top up the little adblu tank until a warning light comes on, and then finish up paying well over the odds for a small container! Most service areas with a dedicated truck diesel area now have adblu pumps alongside or built into the diesel ones, so you commonly see trucks now taking adblu as well as diesel. Anecdotal evidence also suggests that anyone running a newish car that needs it can call into their suppying dealer if the light comes on, and they will replenish the tank for free. If the tank runs dry, the engine will go into limp home mode..... I've also heard of clever ECU people tricking truck electronics into thinking that it has adblu when it doesn't!

DPFs definitely don't like short journeys. Cure for a blocked one seems to be the same as when a 50s or 60s motor got 'coked up'- a flat out blast when no one is looking...... My 2007 V50 was the last year of the model not to have one, meaning servicing is less expensive and less to go wrong. It's my USP when I come to sell it!

Because of the low mileage I do now, I've already decided my next 'car' will be a BEV, having spent two years watching a racing friend tour the UK and Europe in his Tesla (2 actually, he's on his second ) without any issues at all. Trouble is, I can't afford one of those, so it will be the next best thing, but with half the range. Sure I'll cope.....