manual gearboxes?

[canadianfan]

i was wondering, if we put back stick shifts, would traction control or lauch control be able to work?
i'm just asking because i thought LC was put to use because the fia oculdn't control it . but then again were are talking about the fia here

[Ray Bell]

They can readily check if the gearchange is done manually or hydraulically.. could be done.

[LucaBadoer]

Bring back manual gearboxes!!!!

[f1manoz]

Originally posted by LucaBadoer
Bring back manual gearboxes!!!!

Hear, hear!!!

Drivers are getting it way too easy nowadays with all these new fangled electronics. If we all got fitter, we could probably drive the damn things. They almost operate by themselves. The driver accelerates, brakes and steers.

[Epsilon]

I've been thinking something else about LC/TC. If the only reason for the "rear light flashing/fuel flap opening" bit when the limiter is on was to keep teams from using it as a shortcut to traction control, shouldn't they stop doing that now? Just a thought.

[JeremySmith]

Originally posted by LucaBadoer
Bring back manual gearboxes!!!!

Right on brother...Missed gear changes will mean WAY more passing..

[kuchi]

If we all got fitter, we could probably drive the damn things. They almost operate by themselves. The driver accelerates, brakes and steers.

That is so true f1manoz, we just need some few pounds a couple of good sponsors, and we will be racing an F1 car.

[Inigo Montoya]

Bring back manual gearboxes? I beg to differ. Besides being a spectator sport, F1's purpose is also to be on the cutting edge of technology. The more gizmos the better! There are other, less technology unfriendly, ways to increase passing.

Geez.. next thing you know, you'll want them to go back to cast iron engine blocks, and unsynchronized gearboxes so they have to double-clutch when they change...

[kuchi]

Look my friend inigo, I'm sad I have to disagree with you because you seem to be a Montoya fan, but the things you`re saying are not quite right to me. I know F1 is the pinnacle of automotive tech, but why we don`t just put the cars out there with no drivers????. That's the point, is not just the car, remember there is a human body in the machine, which means sometimes it will not act correctly because mistakes are human. The better the driver, the better the car, and the car doesn't always has to be perfect. So, my point is that F1 sure needs some technology, but the drivers need to improve as well, there are a lot of drivers who like the auto-gear boxes, but some say it is just not very exciting. I think bad drivers are happy with all this gadgets, but the REAL ones are just bored.

[Inigo Montoya]

First off, Montoya is one driver I DO NOT like, so don't feel bad about disagreeing with me Now, as far as real drivers not liking the tech gizmos, I suggest you take a look at Schummi's comments with respect to this. He loves the electronics. I guess you don't consider him a real driver, even though he is about to break the all time wins record?

[Bononi]

Easy guys !

I knew it was going to happen... the PRO and the CON clash...

[angst]

Originally posted by Inigo Montoya
First off, Montoya is one driver I DO NOT like, so don't feel bad about disagreeing with me Now, as far as real drivers not liking the tech gizmos, I suggest you take a look at Schummi's comments with respect to this. He loves the electronics. I guess you don't consider him a real driver, even though he is about to break the all time wins record?

Senna hated them. Prost hated them. Lauda hates them. Alesi hates them. TGF loves 'em. Go figure.

[Inigo Montoya]

Angst, I find it amusing that you include Alesi in this list of F1 greats! Ok then, if ya wanna be like that: I hear Marques is pro traction control

[Bononi]

So Irvine too

[canadianfan]

who cares what the drivers think!!
This is a spectator sport; christ, drivers do their job to entertain us. If a millionaire nancy driver complains thats its too hot, or he's gets tired shifting, i'll take his place.
Besides that, i do agree f1 is the pinnacle of auto tech, but we must also measure the driver's skill, not some geek's computer proficiency.

[kristof14]

i thought the whole point of F1 was that it has the best drivers in the world! theyre hardly showing how good they really are when the car does most of the work for em! they no longer show how good they are are car control as they dont have to change gear whilst steering the car and controlling the throttle! the car does most of this for em!

[Inigo Montoya]

But if all the drivers are allowed the same gizmos, then we ARE measuring their ability. Actually, if you want to take your argument to the extreme, then they all should drive identical cars. Sounds to me like you guys are lobbying for F1 to turn into <ack!!> NASCAR!!

No, sir... I don't like it!

[Alan Jones]

I think missed gear chages would increase the opportunity of passing but onna downside, would also increase the number of rear enders. Don't They brake alot later than they used to when manual gearboxes were a feature of F1?

[Inigo Montoya]

Are you trying to tell me that all there is to F1 driving is gear shifts and throttle control? Come on... these are the mundane parts that are optimized by the gizmos. What separates the men from the boys is car setup, car placement, racing line, and passing moves!

[Bononi]

Originally posted by Inigo Montoya
Are you trying to tell me that all there is to F1 driving is gear shifts and throttle control? Come on... these are the mundane parts that are optimized by the gizmos. What separates the men from the boys is car setup, car placement, racing line, and passing moves!

Well said that

[neutral]

Why wouldnt Schumacher love Traction Control? Before it was introduced all the anti-schumis would claim that he was still using it. There was a lot of innuendo and suspicion over his car (even though it was clearly less superior to the Mclaren in terms of turning exits and starts). Now everything is legal. Nobody can accuse him of such crimes. He is dominating more than ever, and people can do nothing else but realise and praise his talent now. The people that want the end of TC are the same people that would bit@h after each race claiming that some teams are still using it. People have short memories when it comes to TC. Does everybody forget all the outrage caused by Frentzen's comments earlier in the year? Well this is a perfect example of what would be happening all year if it were banned.

[Ray Bell]

Actually, thinking about it, I don't think the drivers have the time to do the changing by conventional means any more, at least not under brakes. The tremendous efficiency of the aero packages and the brakes means they are under brakes for such a short period of time while they have to go down three or four gears... makes it hard.

Then again, might it introduce a new level of skill?

[angst]

[i] Does everybody forget all the outrage caused by Frentzen's comments earlier in the year? Well this is a perfect example of what would be happening all year if it were banned. [/B]

Well, talking of having short memories regarding TC, Heinz was proven right by Ferrari's acceptance that they had been using traction control...ooops...traction enhancement which is obviously completely different. So it should read "Does everybody forget the outrage caused by Ferrari using TC, and finally admitting (at least about the previous 18 mths) that they had been. This is a perfect example of what happened when it was banned."
The only problem with the previous ban on TC was that the FIA had not a clue on how to police it.
The reason Schumacher likes TC so much is that it has served him so well throughout his career...

[ttc]

Originally posted by angst


Well, talking of having short memories regarding TC, Heinz was proven right by Ferrari's acceptance that they had been using traction control...ooops...traction enhancement which is obviously completely different. So it should read "Does everybody forget the outrage caused by Ferrari using TC, and finally admitting (at least about the previous 18 mths) that they had been. This is a perfect example of what happened when it was banned."
The only problem with the previous ban on TC was that the FIA had not a clue on how to police it.
The reason Schumacher likes TC so much is that it has served him so well throughout his career...

Angst, care to explain how/why the REST of the teams are NOT suddenly up to speed of the Ferrari after the official use of TC?

I mean, if Ferrari was ILLEGALLY using Traction Enhancement that gave them SIGNIFICANT advantage last year, then wouldn't its performance this year be DRASTICALLY reduced now that ALL the teams are OFFICIALLY using TC?

What have we seen so far? Facts speak louder than false allegations.

[neutral]

Heinz was proven right by Ferrari's acceptance that they had been using traction control

How was he proven right??? You claim to speak with facts but all you have is anti-schumi propaganda. Angst your the exact reason I love traction control. It is you who *****ed after every race claiming that Ferrari were using TC when the evidence showed the contrary. Which team in 2000 had the lightning starts? NOT ferrari but rather your beloved Mclaren. Martin Brundle commented at Barcelona (first race under TC in 2001) how bad the engines sounded with TC. The installation of TC meant engines were cutting off at the end of the corner on the detection of wheelspin. Now why could Martin not hear such a distinctive sound from the Ferrari in 2000?

Neither Mclaren or Ferrari used traction control in 2000. They both had advanced engine management systems. If Ferrari is guilty of using such a system then Mclaren is even more so, since theirs was clearly superior. Just to prove this point the following quotes are by Martin during the 2000 season.

"Look at Mika's wheels Murray! Hes got an awful lot of wheelspin their ....but it seems as if...almost at an instant to just cut off and he gains amazing traction and he fly's away "

Martin Brundle on Mika's strange slow/quick start at Suzuka 2000

The Ferrari's just cant get any grip on the exits from those tyres today.....Look how Michaels having to fight the car Murray... unfortunately Hungary is not the circuit where David can capitalize on the better traction he's enjoying at the exits"

Martin Brundle at the 2000 Hungarian grand prix

I could find more if you like Angst. Ferrari did not have the better hand on Mclaren in the electronics department last year. Frank Williams even had this to say after this years Monaco grand prix

"its hard too understand why Mclaren is having so much problems with their electronics when last year they were the class of the field in that area"

Frank Williams on Mclarens continuing electronic failures

So as far as TC goes I say keep it legal. As long as its banned you'll always have people like Angst bit@ching and spreading innuendo after every race.