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3 Aug 2021, 06:39 (Ref:4065025) | #1 | ||
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Sports car/endurance sporting regulations
We all love a good moan about track limits, safety cars, full course yellows, wave arounds, drive times, driver gradings blah blah blah. So here is a thread just for that. Let's keep the whinging in race and series threads to a minimum by complaining about it here! Fair enough if it's relevant to a race outcome, but general discussions about different approaches just pollute the race threads.
If you don't want to know, you don't have to read it. And if we wander too far off piste in another thread we can be gently directed here by our fellow posters. |
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3 Aug 2021, 13:43 (Ref:4065106) | #2 | ||
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3 Aug 2021, 13:51 (Ref:4065109) | #3 | ||
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Eventually it becomes a grid place penalty for the next thread, which means you can't contribute until it has x-number of posts. Worst case scenario, you have to start from the pitlane only after 1 full page of the topic has been completed.
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3 Aug 2021, 13:52 (Ref:4065110) | #4 | ||
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Then they can be directed to SkiTalk, obviously!
Good idea Mike. Not sure how much take-up there will be but at least initially it will be good to see who gripes about what, so you are warned in advance in race threads. Last edited by J Jay; 3 Aug 2021 at 13:52. Reason: Winky for continuity |
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BoP is democracy for racing. |
3 Aug 2021, 14:01 (Ref:4065114) | #5 | ||
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Great idea to encourage discussion on all aspects of sportscar racing
We can implement penalties. |
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Brum brum |
3 Aug 2021, 16:56 (Ref:4065169) | #6 | |||
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Quote:
Does anyone at all think IMSA's safety car procedure is a good thing? I have stopped watching IMSA races on several occasions because life is just too short to sit through laps of SC with pits closed, pits open for prototypes, pits open for GTs, wave around, cars that pitted catching the SC train, more wave arounds etc. Usually for a SC that was triggered by a single car spin that was recovered immediately after the SC was sent out, about 20 minutes before. I don't get it. It's my candidate for worst FCY/SC procedure. |
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3 Aug 2021, 17:10 (Ref:4065171) | #7 | |||
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Quote:
- pits closed for a lap so nobody gains directly from the yellow call - split GT/prototype pits so too many cars are not on pit lane at once - constant wave-rounds so everybody knows their position for the restart But I agree, this edges out SRO's procedure for its sheer, obnoxious length. Aside from the usual justifications, one "benefit" of longer control periods is that it gives more down time for drivers on track - especially amateurs - and consequently they should be more prepared mentally and physically for the restart. I'm probably talking out my behind*, but it may be away for a series to be seen as "driver-friendly". *Not much change there then... |
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3 Aug 2021, 18:20 (Ref:4065178) | #8 | ||
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Quote:
IMSA is in different culture and location of course. But there are changes they can do within reason. The easiest is to implememnt "FCY" for debris and stalled car situations. Gaps are preserved and no wave arounds and no further delays. Keep currrent safety car procedures for crashes and bad weather. The best handler of caution periods is the WEC for the non Le Mans races. Although shout out to the originators Creventic. |
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3 Aug 2021, 18:30 (Ref:4065181) | #9 | |
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This thread topic is a great idea. Kudos to Mike E for thinking of it.
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3 Aug 2021, 18:50 (Ref:4065184) | #10 | ||
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I hadn't really thought about this until you outlined it, but really the whole point of the procedure is to allow a safe way to clean up whatever happened on track by bunching the cars together in one group. But then it made me wonder if really the idea is to just get the cars back together if racing has spread them out. In other words is it really just an effort to improve the show? Especially the separate pit openings for prototypes and GT cars that way you get the classes separate and you are more likely to be near your competitors at the restart.
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3 Aug 2021, 19:12 (Ref:4065188) | #11 | |||
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Quote:
... TenTenths would really benefit from more up-to-date media integration. As WyldStallion said, it's an accepted/welcomed (delete as appropriate) part of racing culture in America to have the field reset during caution periods. Cautions breed cautions is an oft-repeated maxim, but if it provides the entertainment that the audience are used to, it isn't going to go away any time soon. |
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4 Aug 2021, 15:57 (Ref:4065328) | #12 | |
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Quote:
At the Daytona 24 you can have 8 hours of non stop green, but then get 4 safety car periods within an hour and a half. With their wave around rule a car that lost 4 laps in that 8 hour stretch is back on the lead lap. Rather cheaply. Takes away a lot of the importance of those 8 hours now. Need to keep the "endurance" in endurance racing. |
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4 Aug 2021, 21:18 (Ref:4065383) | #13 | ||
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Thankfully, at least some of those yellows would be "quick" or whatever they are called and the wave around does not happen during those AFAIK. |
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6 Aug 2021, 12:02 (Ref:4065599) | #14 | ||
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IMSA and SRO’s procedures are absolutely about keeping the field together. They barely pretend otherwise. Given the hyperventilating on commentary about how close and exciting the racing is and the publicity emphasis on last-lap shootouts, it’s deeply ingrained. I personally do not think of either IMSA or SRO races as being serious sporting competitions, they set out to be and succeed in being great spectacles, nothing more.
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I like taking pictures of cars going round tracks, through forests and up hills. |
6 Aug 2021, 14:01 (Ref:4065617) | #15 | ||
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There are two extremes. They purposely throw cautions (etc.) to cause close racing is one. The other is that they avoid cautions (etc.) to be complete pure.
We were close to the first a few years back in IMSA I think. We haven’t been at the later since the 50s. I do not believe that IMSA are so close to the first now. I’d describe it as they are cautious with safety (and there are other reasons to do this) and they are happy for the consequence on the racing. |
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6 Aug 2021, 14:14 (Ref:4065623) | #16 | ||
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The consequence on racing is that there is a 25-40 minute race-altering FCY every time a car spins, even if it recovers on its own, even if it recovers before the SC comes out, which also plagues IndyCar. I find this to be the most infuriating thing about American racing as a whole. It really ruins IMSA for me. It's a shame that the only series of this level with proper old school tracks is so gimmicky rules-wise.
GTD qualifying is another thing. What were they thinking? I just gave up tuning into the quali. |
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6 Aug 2021, 14:20 (Ref:4065626) | #17 | ||
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Quote:
SRO is still a lot better in my opinion (although FCY--SC is completely ridiculous), as for example in Spa 24 hours, there were 4 situations which would most definitely result in caution if it was an IMSA race, but they were able to deal with it using local yellows/FCY only. Plus there are no passarounds. |
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6 Aug 2021, 15:08 (Ref:4065633) | #18 | ||
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Quote:
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6 Aug 2021, 15:11 (Ref:4065634) | #19 | |
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Yeah John Doonan went crazy with the gimmicks this year. The GTD Pro qualifying is fine for this year, but it makes no sense to have it in 2022. It needs to go after Petit Le Mans.
The Daytona Q-race is worth another shot, but this time I suggest have a prototype grid and a GT only grid. Two 1 hour 25 minute races. You can call it the "Motul Twin 125"...bring back the term since NASCAR is not using it anymore. If IMSA would adopt "FCY" for debris and stalled car situations. The number of safety car periods where you have the wave arounds will reduce a ton. You still will have it but it won't be as much of a part. Would only be used for genuine accidents/crashes and bad weather. Somebody hook me up with Doonan, we need to talk. |
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6 Aug 2021, 19:56 (Ref:4065659) | #20 | |||
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Quote:
My ideal would be: Use FCY whenever possible rather than SC, or local slow zones on longer tracks. If a SC is the most appropriate option then fine. Never close the pitlane, unless the incident has actually occurred in the pitlane. No pass around. There would be winners and losers with the above system but it's simple, and in a world of spec (or semi-spec) cars, BoP and generally very good reliability a bit of randomness would be welcome, in my opinion. |
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6 Aug 2021, 20:24 (Ref:4065668) | #21 | ||
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Quote:
This is basically what ACO does, isn´t it? Although they do have some kind of passaround I believe. |
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6 Aug 2021, 20:44 (Ref:4065673) | #22 | |||
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Quote:
"Heeey... Are you totally sure?... oh look, the fly's gone" "No. I already grabbed the scissors! Can't stop this now!" |
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6 Aug 2021, 20:55 (Ref:4065679) | #23 | ||
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7 Aug 2021, 01:35 (Ref:4065700) | #24 | |||
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Quote:
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18 Oct 2021, 18:28 (Ref:4079030) | #25 | |
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SRO officials reallly made a mess of the 8 hours of Indy didn't they. 11 safety car periods! I can't imagine the Speedway will want them back after that. They want an endurance race not a parade with wrecks in between. Big shame after the Spa 24 went off fairly well. Safety car rules thankfully did not ruin that one.
My non-realistic wish would be for Indy 8 to become a race for IMSA GTD and Michilen Pilot Challene to run in together. But maybe this debacle will teach SRO some lessons? Maybe....errr..probably not :-( |
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