Cold War between FIA and TCR?

[FIRE]

FIA to establish a regional championship framework for touring cars

The FIA Touring Car Commission has confirmed that it will work to establish a touring car framework for regional championships, and will soon invite various promoters to tender to run these championships.

The move was announced at the extraordinary meeting of the World Motor Sport Council yesterday, and is clearly influenced in the recent resurgence in national touring car series across the world.

The Commission plans to establish a framework which “will play a key role in establishing a touring car pyramid – as found in other disciplines with world, regional and national levels”

http://www.touringcartimes.com/2017/...-touring-cars/

WTCC planned to have a 2nd class, Yesterday it became clear these plans were shelved. Now they want regional series. We know TCR is growing, at least in Europe. We had the issues in Macau. I get the impression there's a Cold War between FIA and TCR. Or am I reading too much into this?

[Bcarr6]

Originally Posted by FIRE

http://www.touringcartimes.com/2017/...-touring-cars/



WTCC planned to have a 2nd class, Yesterday it became clear these plans were shelved. Now they want regional series. We know TCR is growing, at least in Europe. We had the issues in Macau. I get the impression there's a Cold War between FIA and TCR. Or am I reading too much into this?

The FIA like to have control of Motorsports categories...

The way I see it, they know WTCC is slipping and TCR is already taking the reigns.... they want to asset control in whatever way they can

They have been attempting to do the same with GT Racing for a while in various ways, but SRO are still controlling GT3 and GT4

[porsche962fan]

FIA victims

- Group C proto racer
- original DTM
- BPR Global GT
- Group B rally cars
- WRC
- super tourers
- ETCC 2005 (S2000 )
and I guess many more


every time a series or category gets really popular it seems it gets a sudden death so TCR may be a next victim

[NaBUru38]

TCR has flourished in Europe and Asia

It would be a shame if

FIA became interested in it

[crossfades]

Does FIA actually do anything good?

[Metzo]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

FIA victims

- Group C proto racer
- original DTM
- BPR Global GT
- Group B rally cars
- WRC
- super tourers
- ETCC 2005 (S2000 )
and I guess many more


every time a series or category gets really popular it seems it gets a sudden death so TCR may be a next victim

pretty much everything in the past 30 years that provided good racing was killed by the fia.

[Rob877]

They talk of introducing a 'ladder'. I really don't see the point in that, I'd rather see lots of strong national series and no world series than the other way round. I just don't think there is enough money floating around to sustain healthy national championships and a healthy world championship. I'd hate to see the FIA get involved in any of the 'big four' national touring car series (V8s, BTCC, DTM and Argentina S2000 IMO of course). As alluded to earlier in the thread they seem to have a real knack of destroying healthy series.

[Tarzaan]

Originally Posted by FIRE

http://www.touringcartimes.com/2017/...-touring-cars/

They should do that before they create the TC1. It could work like the stock and superbike in the bike sport.

[S griffin]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC it's not the FIA that has destoryed so many popular series, but Bernie with craftily thought out plans

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

FIA victims
- Group C proto racer
- original DTM
- BPR Global GT
- Group B rally cars
- WRC
- super tourers
- ETCC 2005 (S2000 )
and I guess many more

How many of those can you actually blame the FIA?

DTM died when they tried to go from a national series to a trans-global D-Mark shredding contest.

Group B ended when someone realised that killing spectators is perhaps not a great idea.

Supertouring bubble burst when costs spiralled and manufacturers started to look elsewhere.

[Bramzel]

DTM died when Ecclestone took over, made it a International glamour party and costs exploded. The same happened to BPR. In the nineties your championship better wasn't a threat to F1, or Ecclestone came along. Happened at LeMans, happened with DTM, happened with BPR, even truck racing had to deal with him if I remember correctly.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by redshoes

How many of those can you actually blame the FIA?

DTM died when they tried to go from a national series to a trans-global D-Mark shredding contest.

Group B ended when someone realised that killing spectators is perhaps not a great idea.

Supertouring bubble burst when costs spiralled and manufacturers started to look elsewhere.

DTM can be blamed entirely on the FIA , with their "ITC" it's their fault that it became a fiasco

Group A had also fatal accidents during the 80s , it wasn't Group B fault when spectators were like this ,

[/url]


as for Super touring spiraling costs FIA could have clamped down on it if they really wanted...

[Tarzaan]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

DTM died when Ecclestone took over, made it a International glamour party and costs exploded. The same happened to BPR. In the nineties your championship better wasn't a threat to F1, or Ecclestone came along. Happened at LeMans, happened with DTM, happened with BPR, even truck racing had to deal with him if I remember correctly.

As I read DTM died because they introdce new tech rules from 93. That makes racing more expensive. Audi and BMW turns into S2000, and the STW series becomes more and more successfull.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

DTM died when Ecclestone took over...

Don't confuse Ecclestone with the FIA. One shouldn't get blamed for teh other's mistakes

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

DTM can be blamed entirely on the FIA , with their "ITC" it's their fault that it became a fiasco

ITC was as a result of the DTM and manufacturers wanting to expand. FIA had to be involved once it became an international series.

Even if they hadn't evolved into the ITC, the DTM wouldn't have lasted that much longer anyhow. Manufacturers were already spending obscene amounts of money on the latest cutting edge technology and that was never going to be sustainable.

as for Super touring spiraling costs FIA could have clamped down on it if they really wanted...

So you are saying that some died due to FIA action and some due to FIA inaction. So dammed if they do and dammed if they don't then.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by redshoes

Don't confuse Ecclestone with the FIA. One shouldn't get blamed for teh other's mistakes


ITC was as a result of the DTM and manufacturers wanting to expand. FIA had to be involved once it became an international series.

no they didn't , Opel and Alfa Romeo were not present in Japan and some of the other markets the series was going

why do you think Alfa and Opel walked away which caused the demise of the series at the end of 1996 ?

also FIA is blamed for the low attandence of spectators because they were charging too much money so tickets were too expensive


and Eccelstone came in with the idea of having 3.5 L engines on proto racers which effectively killed Group C , of course it just happened FIA just "listen" to him

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Rob877

They talk of introducing a 'ladder'. I really don't see the point in that, I'd rather see lots of strong national series and no world series than the other way round. I just don't think there is enough money floating around to sustain healthy national championships and a healthy world championship. I'd hate to see the FIA get involved in any of the 'big four' national touring car series (V8s, BTCC, DTM and Argentina S2000 IMO of course). As alluded to earlier in the thread they seem to have a real knack of destroying healthy series.

I agree with this.

A ladder system makes sense if you can move up from national series to an international serie where drivers are getting paid. But there isn't a series like that.

Currently I don't see the need for FIA involvement in touring car racing. If they would have invented TCR it would be different. There's TCR for national and regional series and the countries with their own successful series have their own technical rules and don't need FIA. FIA should stay away from these series.

[S griffin]

And who can forget Bernie being put in charge for the first ever WTCC series in 1987? That series was doomed from the off when he took over and made them pay for an entry

[matherto]

There should be no world series.

Have really strong national series and 'cup' races like they used to.

One in Europe (hell, use the Nordschleife), one in the Americas and then Macau as the showpiece?

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by S griffin

And who can forget Bernie being put in charge for the first ever WTCC series in 1987? That series was doomed from the off when he took over and made them pay for an entry

indeed

in 1986 Group A racing was its hight , the ETCC of 1986 had works cars from Rover, BMW , Ford, Holden , Volvo and field was quite balanced, everyone could win a race

lower classes had works or semi-works cars from Alfa Romeo, Mercedes and Toyota


then Bernie comes along transformes into into WTCC 1987 and it goes down the toillet

Volvo, Rover , Mercedes leave the series Alfa Romeo follow the next year.. and 1988 was the last ETCC season by that point in was farse the Sierra RS 500 had total domination in top class and the BMW M3 in lower class

[NaBUru38]

TCR at the Nordschleife would be awesome.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

and 1988 was the last ETCC season by that point in was farse the Sierra RS 500 had total domination in top class and the BMW M3 in lower class

Same happened - without any Bernie-meddling that I would know of - in BTCC, though.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Same happened - without any Bernie-meddling that I would know of - in BTCC, though.

appereantly it was recognized as a FIA "error" to adjust the turbo coefficient for base weight calculations , if the coefficient was higher the RS 500 would had (much) more base weight and the non-turbo cars would had a chance to compete

[Sodemo]

The mess up of the SEAT TDi's in the WTCC is something which particularly narked me. The other cars could never compete in a straight line. I'm not actually sure if that was an FIA or SRO blunder though.

[Bramzel]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

The mess up of the SEAT TDi's in the WTCC is something which particularly narked me. The other cars could never compete in a straight line. I'm not actually sure if that was an FIA or SRO blunder though.

That'd be Eurosport/KSO rather than SRO. SRO organized the GT's. But yeah, they definitely messed up there, it never was a level playing field.

[S griffin]

And then they kept changing the rules at every meeting, which just made it worse