Who is better ---Montoya or Fisi ?

[Sato san]

reading through the thread ( who is better-- Juan or Ralf ) ..Boots posted this....

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide

In team-mate comparisons, Ralf doesn't stand up well. He was indeed trounced by Fisichella who had little more experience, and was outpaced though not outscored by not only Montoya but also Button as rookies. And Fisichella wolloped Button even after he had a year's experience... The question should be, who's better out nof Montoya and Fisichella.

From the results so far in that thread

62% say Juan is the better overall .......
20% say Ralf is the better overall....

so if Juan is regarded as better than Ralf....
what if ( like Boots says ) you put him up against Fisi ?.......tough one i think , But i thought it might produce some good disscusion....so what do you think ?

[Mygale]

i will go for Juan Pablo being the better driver .

Fisi has been through bad periods before , at one point Wurz started to out perform him a few years back . Very hard choice though , Fisi is very fast .

[f1grandprixshop]

give the same equiptment i think they're just about the same.

[Speedworx]

Montoya is better.

[Sato san]

I will go for Montoya , for the reason that although he has been a test driver at Williams in the past, he is still only in his 2nd year in F1 and some of the things he's produced so far have been stunning . And he has won the INDY 500 first time out which is some feat .

very close call though , we relly need to see Fisi in a top 3 team and see how he gets on . Im sure Fisi would push everyone very highly . I rate Fisi very high indeed .

[NiceGuyEddie]

I would say Fisichella. He was ultimatly quick from the word go, back in 1996 and he has learned a lot since then. In the past he had his fair share of mistakes, and nowadays he seems to have smoothen that out. Fisichella outshines every teammate he's ever had. When the mental side of things are ok, but he seems to be mentally stronger as well.

One of the big mysteries in F1 today, is the fact that Fisico had to make do with rather inferior seats, as where his capabillity should brought him a topline one. I rate him higher than Rubens, Ralf, Juan and David anyway. Probably even Kimi, but that is more because of a lack of experience on the side of the Fin. Beter than M. Schumacher is something diffrent. Fisico is probably faster than Michael, but would ultimatly loose on points (not by a knock out).

On my ratingslist for the 2002 campaign, he is second.

[RT]

Originally posted by NiceGuyEddie

One of the big mysteries in F1 today, is the fact that Fisico had to make do with rather inferior seats, as where his capabillity should brought him a topline one. I rate him higher than Rubens, Ralf, Juan and David anyway. Probably even Kimi, but that is more because of a lack of experience on the side of the Fin. Beter than M. Schumacher is something diffrent. Fisico is probably faster than Michael, but would ultimatly loose on points (not by a knock out).

Do you think Ferrari would give Fisi the Schumacher seat after Michael retires?. I don't see Ferrari staying on top for more than a couple of years if the current Schumi-team disbands, but it would be nice to see what Fisi can do while the team holds. It would also likely be the "sunset" of Fisi's career but at least he'd have a car that would do him justice for a change.

[Raven]

Fisi is the better package at this stage in their careers IMO.

[NiceGuyEddie]

It was rumoured this season that Fisi was after a Sauber-deal for 2003, to be closer to Ferrari. So the I saw somewhat truth in the Heidfeld-swap-Fisichella-story. Sadly, it wasnt to be.

If I remember correctly, Fisi was tested by Maranello alongside Badoer and Barrichello for the 1996 seat next to Schumacher. Surprisingly, that one went to Irvine.

Its hard to figure out why teams make the decisions they do, but perhaps Fisi failed to show his potential that day. Back in 1996 he wasn't nearly as good as he is today. I was in the position to ask Eddie Jordan a question, by sending it in to TV. My question in a nutshell was if Eddie believed Fisi was a better driver today then he was back in 1997, and if so, on what fields. It never got asked though, so it never got answered.

Be that as it may, the Ferrariteam is so solidly put together, that driver-changes are the last thing on their collective minds. They won't even let them fight eachother on track for fear of damaging the teams spirit and therefor its structure. Healthy for the short run, not so healty for the long run. I think Ferrari are indeed preparing for the downfall after Schumacher (and subsequently Brawn, Byrne and Todt) retires, so they take anything they can get, right now. Fair enough.

If Fisichella gets the post-Schumacher drive (and he has a fair shot at it), than he will be stepping into a downfall waiting to happen. Again his carreerstep will be more damaging than rewarding. Truly the story of his F1-live. If Fisichella wants to drive for Ferrari for the Italian hell of it, he obviously should go for it, if not, he better think twice. But then again, a post-Schumacher drive is his biggest chance of a more than well deserved victory.

[neilap]

As for skill maybe JPM has an edge on GF but I would say Gf is able to put together better and more consistent laps than JPM. Juans strength is his heart. He fears no one and will not step aside for anyone. It can work against him too but when he is on, he looks unstoppable. If JPM was in a Ferrari I dont think he would/could be beaten.

[steve nielsen]

Fisichella,as Montoya sometimes just can't keep his cool.

[Inigo Montoya]

I voted Fisichella. I fully believe he would have done better with the Williams package, had he had it this year.

[MichaelH]

I would say Fisi is one of the greats of the sport. The only thing that has prevented him from winning three races has been silly little errors, like sliding off at Hockenheim 97 after beating Berger out of the pits. He's matured greatly and has cut out the mistakes, in a Ferrari he would be brilliant. Montoya is very hardworking and confident, but his ultimate level of talent, like Nigel Mansell and Alain Prost, is probably only mid-table. So Fisichella.

[BootsOntheSide]

Thanks for the plug Sato, you even managed to pick out five lines of my text, with only one typing error!

It's certainly a tough question. Fisichella hasn't made many mistakes throughout his career (Nurburgring this year and Malaysia last year all that instantly come to mind), and he's capable of outpacing some very good people. However its rare to see him really push a car beyond its performance limits as Montoya can do.

Giancarlo has frequently been unlucky to be overlooked for top drives though, he joined Benetton at the wrong time and got dropped by Flavio's internal politics just as he'd developed their current revolutionary engine, and he left Jordan just as they got a winning car for 2 years. He may have had the Williams drive if he were German, Ralf got it partly at BMW's behest. Its harder to rate a guy who hasn't had top hardware.

I voted Montoya, simply because he has so much natural flair and aggression, but right now Fisichella can do just as good a job, but I get the feeling that he'll be the current generation's Martin Brundle or Chris Amon, a potential superstar let down by bad luck and poor off-track decisions.

[Valve Bounce]

Originally posted by MichaelH
Montoya is very hardworking and confident, but his ultimate level of talent, like Nigel Mansell and Alain Prost, is probably only mid-table.

I hope Liz never gets to read this. I have seen posters bash just about every driver on the grid in the past four years, but I have never, ever, in all the years of following F1, seen anyone describe both Nigel Mansell and Alain Prost as "only mid-table". These are very, very brave words, and I am sure will provoke the predictable response from quite a few members here. I won't lead the charge - I will just mop up the blood when they are finished.


Valve

[Splatz the Cow]

er, Well put VB. I think I'll also stand back as the flames are hot from some of these posts.

Let me see now,

Nigel Mansell won a WDC, and then an Indycar championship as rookie.... definately mid-table.

Alain Prost won WDC more than once and is regarded as one of the greats in F1 history.

Fisichella? well we'll just keep waiting I guess..... has he even one a race?


Fair go... he's good, but if he is so much better than Prost Mansell Montoya Button Schumacher etc, when will we see his godly talents?

I can't recall any sensational passes or races by him, no offence, maybe that's why nobody gives him a drive.

[mac]

Fisi.

He is more of a complete package. Montoya is too ragged and yeah he looks good, but I'm not picking a guy just because he looks good.

People say Montoya's mental strength is a bonus. I see it as arrogance. He would rather go off the track and damage his car than accept someone passing him. In some ways it's admirable, but in others it's stupid. Montoya believes he's after Schumacher, but he doesn't have the car or, in my opinion, the skill (at this point of his career). Still, there is nothing better to watch in F1, than Montoya on full attack.

Some of the results Fisichella has managed in rubbish machinery throughout his career has been amazing. 3rd at Spa in the rubbish Benetton that was racing with Minardis last year. A series of points finishes with that Honda junk this year. He is the goods. Fisi ended Wurz's career, should have ended Button's career and has just about ruined Sato's before it gets started. He is smooth, fast, calm, yet aggressive.

If I was a team owner, the first person I would call would be Fisi's manager.

Then Mark Webber's - but thats another story.

[senna12]

I will not dignify the "mid table" remark with a response, I feel that statement is just ridiculous.

It is plain to see that Fisi has tremendous skills, but why is it that he has not driven for the big 3? Is it a relationship with Flavio that has poisoned him? There have been no shortage of opportunities in the last few years.
Why didn't Ron or Frank choose him over Kimi or Jenson/JP?
Why isn't he where Rubens is now?

As soon as we see what he does in a top car, I think we might get a better idea of how good he really is. But there aren't a lot of openings, just David, Rubens, or Ralf.

[mac]

He has already beaten Ralf. And I'm sure he would beat David. It would be a lot closer with Rubens, but I reckon he'd still beat him.

Politics just has so much to do with sport. I reckon politics is the only reason he has not got a decent seat. I mean, he walloped Button last year, and I can only see 2 reasons why he got punted from Benetton/Renault.

1) Flav didn't want 2 Italians in the team
2) Flav didn't want his driver (Trulli) to go up against Fisi in his first year with the team, after seeing what he did to Button - a similar result would only devalue his driver.

If Flav wasn't making the decisions at Renault, Fisi would be in a top team - Renault.

[f1manoz]

Fisichella by miles. But JPM is still developing as a driver.

[MichaelH]

My "mid table" comment isn't as ridiculous as it sounds...

Mansell was a hardworker, very confident, a very good racer, but I reckon in terms of ultimate, god given talent he wasn't one of the best.
Prost was cool, calculating and clever, but in ultimate terms not that fast. Look at the way Senna trounced him in qualifying..

It's not that stupid a comment, surely?!

[Kex]

Fisichella has a lot of talent (like most of the F1 drivers) but Montoya is definitely better. Fisi would have been in a top team ages ago if he was that good.

[Spudgun]

Originally posted by MichaelH
Mansell was a hardworker, very confident, a very good racer, but I reckon in terms of ultimate, god given talent he wasn't one of the best.

Mansell trounced Piquet in identical equipment on many occassions. He also trounced Ricardo Patrese in identical equipment on many occassions.

He was one of the few drivers that wasn't intimidated by Senna.

Hungary, 1989, started 12th in his Ferrari and won on a track that was very difficult to overtake on.

British Grand Prix, 1987, that storming drive, breaking the lap record lap after lap to catch and pass his team mate after making an unscheduled stop. 'Nuff said.

He picked up a car by the scruff of the neck and gave it his all. It was only bad luck that restricted him to only 1 title. He could well have had three if it wasn't for the tyre blow out in 1986 and breaking his back in 1987.

Mid table indeed..

[senna12]

Originally posted by MichaelH
Prost was cool, calculating and clever, but in ultimate terms not that fast. Look at the way Senna trounced him in qualifying..

It's not that stupid a comment, surely?!

Alain Prost;

4 time WDC, 1985, 1986, 1989, 1993
4 time runner up WDC, 1983, 1984, 1988, 1990
51 GP wins, including 6 in France.
106 podiums
798.5 championship points
41 fastest laps

mid table, indeed.

[freud]

Giancarlo is a tremendously gifted driver, and thoroughly deserves the second williams seat currently occupied by Ralf. I do think that he is one of the fastest drivers overs a single lap.

I dont think that he is as good as JPM and I dont think he has what it takes to challenge the domination of M. Schum.