TKM 4 Stroke

[ActiveMS]

Looking at TKM 4 Stroke F6 for 2006 and then possibly S1 for 2007.
Have been recommended both Gillard and CRG chassis.
Also been told the TKM S4 Raider is ok, but build quality may not be up to the same standard as the others.

Anyone done a back 2 back comparison of such chassis?

[speedy king]

Sam should be able to help you on here, think he has a CRG or Raider in S1

[speedy king]

Gillards seem to be doing good at everything at the moment, CRG are also in the same position. It may just come down to which ever is easiest tog et parts for. From my experience Gillard is a LOT more cheaper for parts than CRG

[#15 tkm 4/]

Hi, nice to see another tkm 4 stroke driver out there!

Firstly dont go with those chassi's...
Your best choice is either the s4 (latest raider chassi) made by tal-ko (those guys who build the 4 stroke engine) or any of the MSkarts as those are the top chassi's in Super 1.

There is a CRG chassi but the drivers arn't doing to well and say it is hard to set up, and i have not seen one single Gillard chassi anywhere with a tkm engine on it, so whoever you got that info from is intresting....

Back to Super1, The two top chassi's are Tal-ko and MS. The Tal-Ko chassi is easy to set up and is on the pace in both the wet and dry conditions. Where as the Ms is on the pace in the dry it is VERY SLOW in the wet conditions. Your best options are to go to the next F6 race which is at Clay Pigeon or to the '0' plate which is at clay pigeon or the last Super 1 race of the year at Whitton mill.

Where in surrey are you based and what will be your home track??

any more info needed i will try to help you

Sam

[Flatspot]

I found THIS article useful when trying to make the same decision. It was written in 2002 but I beleive the same applies today. Good Luck!

[ActiveMS]

Thanks guys. Interesting stuff.
I know someone who raced a Gillard in TKM 4Stroke a couple of years ago, so I guess it was done at some point. Interesting to hear comments about the CRG as Internationally they are doing very well. Indeed Tal-Ko have tried to chat me into buying the S4, but I will need to look at one as Ive heard the components arent very well made????

What are the MSKarts? Not heard of those yet.

Will definitely pop along to an F6 meeting where possible and have a chat with a few people.

Im based in Haslemere (Surrey), so local track is Sandown, but not too bothered about tracks being too local as Kent isnt far and there seem to be plenty down there.

Rgds
JC

[#15 tkm 4/]

well my local track is sandown park too (but i dont go there oftern anymore)

I didnt know about the gillard racing so that was news to me, but if no-one uses them now, that must be saying something?

MSKarts are based in Wales, so they are quiet far away but a few of them race at F6.

The next f6 race is on actually this Sat at Clay pigeon and if you go along come and find me i have number 0 on the front of the kart and number 33 everywhere else. Also is number 51. I (and my father) will be more than pleased to talk you through, the TKM 4 stroke if we are not too busy.

And if you do get one, keep us in mind as we are local to you as we are the only people other than Tal-Ko who actually sell engine parts.

[ActiveMS]

Thanks #15.
Unable to make it this weekend, but will be along at somepoint soon.
Talking about engines, how are the 4strokes coping these days and how often do they seem to have problems and need rebuilding, as I guess the official figures will be somewhere off the realistic mark?

Best Regards
JC

[#15 tkm 4/]

last year and this year i have been running at the front of the class in Super 1 and we have not got our engine rebuilt since the 5th round of last super one (late August 2004) so that includes that round, the 6th round, all winter testing, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th round of Super 1 this year. The odd f6 round and testing. Today i raced in f6 and won the the very same engine as i have been using all year, so we have easily gone a year without a rebuil i think and it is still pulling really good. So i would say we are near enough about the mark they say maybe a little bit over and we are happy to keep running this engine for another few meetings.

The main problem you will get with these engines are the pulse pumps (which arnt anything to do with the enigne, the fuel insted). But they take 2-3minutes to change, at the most.

Btw Sandown f6 is on a fortnight today and i will be attending that race too.

Sam

[luke]

I hope to have my first race at Sandown in F6, I will do a test day before the round. I want to do the last Junior Royale rounds to get ready for TKM 4 Stroke next season.

[Alex Hodgkinson]

Originally Posted by #15 tkm 4/

The main problem you will get with these engines are the pulse pumps (which arnt anything to do with the enigne, the fuel insted). But they take 2-3minutes to change, at the most.

Btw Sandown f6 is on a fortnight today and i will be attending that race too.

Sam

A few questions for you:

What trouble do you have with pulse pumps? Are they a specific tkm pump you have to use, or any you wish?

The engines are sealed aren't they..? How many revs do you run them to?

[#15 tkm 4/]

The main problems we have with the pulse pumps are that the diaphragm fails. They arn't specific pumps i dont think but most people use ''mikuno'' pumps and i think we used them on prokarts too.

The engines are sealed and can only be rebuilt by Tal-Ko. So there is only one engine tuner available, so it is all equal and fair.

And we run the engines upto 11,800revs is where the limiter is and we try to top out at about 11,450 as after that it is out of the power band.

Intrested in a tkm 4 stroke alex?

Any more questions i will be glad to try and answer
Sam


mikuno

[Alex Hodgkinson]

I'm not necesserally interested in owning one no (I'm actually considering a move to the Euro Devision 1 Superkart scene,) but I am interested in the engineering side of things as well as driving hence the quesions

We use mikuni pumps with the 125's too - they're a pretty standard thing but unusual you've had failures I think. The one we're using on one kart is about 5 years old and works fine. Maybe they're not quite rite for the tkm 4/ job?

Alex

[#15 tkm 4/]

lol, they normally fail as your sitting on pole for the final and the race before you has just set off, so you have to load the kart back onto the trolley, take it out of dummy grid, leg it back to get spare pump, put new one on (after taken old one off) and then get back on grid just in time to start and win the race from pole :P

[Welsh Karter]

MS aren't based in Wales - I'm pretty sure Howard Lucas, the British importer/agent is based somewhere near Manchester.

Jade chassis are based in Banbury but Ken Denscombe at Llandow, in South Wales, is an agent. Their TKM 4 Stroke chassis is excellent - Junior and Senior

[#15 tkm 4/]

ahhh, sorry my mistake..... Jade are the welsh chassi's. I agree that Jade is excellent in JNR 4stroke, but in SNR it is a long way away from the times.

[davyboy]

As a kart racing veteran of the 20,000rpm 100 National era, I'm intrigued at why you're considering TKM 4-stroke over Formula TKM 2-stroke. The latter, looks better, sounds better, is cheaper to run, less complex, lighter to drive etc... My choice of progression would be F-TKM-2-stroke, then onto one of the faster 2-stroke classes with full race engines if I was going for Super 1.

[#15 tkm 4/]

I dont know how you can say it is cheaper to run? How oftern do TKM 2 strokes get rebuilt, at the top of super 1? every other race? Where as in 4 stroke we dont get ours rebuilt till the start of the next season?

So 6 (possibly more depending on club rounds) rebuilds for the 2 stroke or 1 rebuild for the 4 stroke a season. Also take in account that they usually have about 2-3 engines each in 2strokes and that bumps the price up even more.

Ok 2stroke may be cheaper doing clubs, but msactive wants to race in super 1 in a years time, and without a shadow of a doubt 2 strokes are more expensive in Super1 than 4strokes

[ActiveMS]

AS #15 tkm 4/ says, I dont want the hassle of a 2 stroke.
Im not a young whipper snapper, but someone in the their early thirties who just wants to race something straight forward but in a competitive environment. Hence the reason for starting in F6 and the hopefully S1 at somepoint in the future talent permitting

Im hacked off with mega expensive motorsport having spent the last 3 years in single seaters. So having never karted, fancied lowering the costs but still having the fun.

What puts me off 2 stokes is:

1) the hassle with constant carb fiddles
2) Numerous engine rebuilds

Best Regards
JC

[davyboy]

I'm in my late thirties myself and my best days kart racing [1980s] are definitely behind me, however I think the simplicity and purity of two stroke karts is unbeatable. Its such a pity that they appear to be in decline as they're such an amazing piece of technology.

Just a couple of points though. The carb setting is very straightforward, no black art there. The Formula TKM 2-stroke needs a build every 8 hours or so, and its a pretty painless process. In any event if you're planning on Super 1 racing you're in the big-league of kart-racing expenditure whether you're running 2 or 4 stroke motors.

Whatever you do, I hope you enjoy it. I'm about to get into Formula TKM 2-stroke almost 16 years after my last 100 cc National race and am very much looking forward to it.

[ActiveMS]

Glad to see another oldie like me about to give it some wellie
Didnt realise the TKM 2's had straight forward carbs as I was always led to believe they were a pain, but then again I could have got confused with Rotax (oops, waiting foe the backlash from others now).

Super 1 is only a possibility if Im any good, and apart from the additional expense of more tyres, what else adds to a S1 seasons budget versus F6 and similar, any ideas?

Hope you have fun too

[speedy king]

Originally Posted by ActiveMS

Didnt realise the TKM 2's had straight forward carbs as I was always led to believe they were a pain, but then again I could have got confused with Rotax

That'll be the Rotax....

[davyboy]

Ya that's right, the one with the fiddly carbs is Rotax-Max [the scurge of kart-racing for us purists]. Guess I'm courting a backlash for saying that now.

There are a few 30+ drivers out there, I'm not sure how many are in Super 1 though, if any. Super 1 is a proper national championship that would be difficult to do competitively on a shoestring, though some people attempt it. Many of the drivers are run by professional teams such as Paul Carr Racing and renew chassis every few races as well as plenty of new boots, bodywork and pretty much everything else you can imagine. Its the normal type of stuff you'd expect when the stakes are high... pretty much the way its always been.

I would steer well clear of Rotax-Max, even though its a 2-stroke formula.

[scott19]

Hi. There was a Gillard TKM 4 stroke on the grid at one time. I no that because it was me! I came 5th in super 1 2003. The kart is superb, who has just won the world championships? Olli Oaks on a Gillard. I was in 4 stroke right from when it first started, raced karts for five years and worked full time for a team for 3 years. People buy Tal-Ko chassis because its convenient. When you go into 4 stroke its just easy to buy the complete package from one person. Unfortunatly people are forced into this karting way of thinking that one chassis can be completly different from the other in terms of pase. Look round the paddock, you'll soon see that every kart is simaler. The concern when buying a kart should be the spares and support you will get with it. A Gillard is British made so all the parts are readily available and there is no cost of shiping needed in the price of parts. If you bend the chassis it can easily go back to Gillard to be put right due to the fact the factory is in this country! Also you will recieve alot of support as there is disstributors all over the country. Also getting spares at the track is easy as at any of the main tracks there is a Gillard agent carrying the spares. Obviously theres going to be small differences in pase between the chassis's and club racing isnt the place to compare this as people just follow the trend. You need to look at what the big boys are doing, the guys who know what they are doing. You will see Gillard have just clinched the world champs and were european champs last year. I havent seen a tal-ko chassis in those results! But having said that, a tal-ko chassis is the easy option and you will get the support. Its just you will gain no advantage over you rivals with it.

Scott Temple

[Alex Hodgkinson]

Originally Posted by speedy king

That'll be the Rotax....

What's wrong with the Dellorto carb?

It's far better than any of those needle jet peices of cr*p