Any info about Ford Sierra XR4Ti?

[Zep]

Does anyone have info about group A racer that Ford used before Sierra (Sapphire) Cosworths?

Was this car FWD, RWD or 4WD?

Major achievements?

[Beejay17]

Try Frank De Jong's ETCC site:

http://www.euronet.nl/users/in004021/

[supertouring]

Andy Rouse won the BTCC 1985 (3rd win in a row for Rouse) in a Merkur XR4Ti, basically a re-badged XR4i with a 2.3 turbo engine rather than the 2.8i V6. It was targeted at the US market and not europe where the XR4i was to be sold. Ford had intended the car to be the development tool for the Cosworth, but it was so good that it took the championship in its first year of competition. Rouse learnt about the chassis set-up using it before the 3-door body shell and 2 litre turbo cosworth engine came along. It was RWD like all Sierras.

[supertouring]

I also found this. I think Eggenberger ran them (with Steve Soper also) in Germany and in the ETC (again try Frank's site for this).

Final results 1986 DTM
Driver Car Points
Kurt Thiim (DK) Nickel-Rover Vitesse 130
Volker Weidler (D) Marko-Mercedes 190E 2.3-16 113
Kurt König (D) Maass-BMW 635 CSi 104
Per Stureson (S) IPS-Volvo 240 Turbo 102
Volker Strycek (D) Gubin-BMW 325i 89
Klaus Niedzwiedz Ford Sierra XR4Ti 83
Anton Goeser BMW 635 CSi 76
Per-Gunnar Anderson Volvo 240 Turbo 75
Manuel Reuter Ford Sierra XR4Ti 69
Fritz Müller BMW 635 CSi 58

[supertouring]

The reason for using the XR4Ti over the european version was that the engine was much easier to tune to the kind of output required for racing.

[woodyracing]

Originally posted by supertouring
It was RWD like all Sierras.

apart from the XR4x4 and Sapphire Cosworth 4x4, right?

[supertouring]

I stand corrected, thanks woodyracing for pointing this out.

[woodyracing]

no problem

[Don Vito]

Well is there a typo or what:
http://www.race-cars.com/carsold/for...1/sierx1ss.htm

it says that the car is front driven. So I could think that for some reason the team has chosen to use FWD if 4WD was not allowed.

[Dave Brand]

Originally posted by Don Vito
it says that the car is front driven. So I could think that for some reason the team has chosen to use FWD if 4WD was not allowed.

It actually says:

'A front-running car from the German Touring car series', which means that it was a successful car in the DTM, not that it has front wheel drive.

[Don Vito]

Originally posted by Dave Brand
It actually says:

'A front-running car from the German Touring car series', which means that it was a successful car in the DTM, not that it has front wheel drive.

Well, that explains the whole matter.. Btw how much difference there was between the XR4Ti from DTM and a british gr.A RS500 ?

[DAVID PATERSON]

The XR4ti and RS500 were both run in Group A.

The XR4ti had no grille as such, it had 2 or 4 doors and a 6-window body. It ran a 2.3 litre Pinto block with a small turbo.

The RS500 had 2 doors and a 4-window body. It had a grille and a number of bonnet vents and scoops. It ran a 2-litre Cosworth YB block, which was basically a much better, stronger Pinto. It had a special Cosworth 16v DOHC head. It also had a Garrett T04 turbo and a massive intercooler.

[Don Vito]

Originally posted by DAVID PATERSON
The XR4ti and RS500 were both run in Group A.

The XR4ti had no grille as such, it had 2 or 4 doors and a 6-window body. It ran a 2.3 litre Pinto block with a small turbo.

The RS500 had 2 doors and a 4-window body. It had a grille and a number of bonnet vents and scoops. It ran a 2-litre Cosworth YB block, which was basically a much better, stronger Pinto. It had a special Cosworth 16v DOHC head. It also had a Garrett T04 turbo and a massive intercooler.

Yes, I knew that, but the specific car in question was a '87 DTM XR4Ti (ex Manuel Reuter). How much difference there was between DTM and gr.A regulations and how much it affected in terms of laptimes. The same question could as well be asked about BMW M3s. They were also used in both series.

[KA]

As I recall, the DTM was basically running pretty much straight Group A in 87, (although there may have been some differences in minimum weight limits etc?)- some of the DTM regular BMW teams (Alpina for example) appeared in a number of the ETCC or WTCC races

[Frank de Jong]

Up to 1987 there was not much difference in rules between group A and DTM, apart from the weight rules (a 1985 ETCC sierra was 1185 kg against a DTM Sierra 1365 kg). The 4-valve head on the Sierra RS meant an ever heavier 1390 kg. In 1988, the Sierra RS (no XR4's now) weight was reduced to 1200 kg, but at a price: air restrictors - which in the end (1989) pushed the Sierra out of the DTM.

[KA]

Originally posted by Frank de Jong
Up to 1987 there was not much difference in rules between group A and DTM, apart from the weight rules (a 1985 ETCC sierra was 1185 kg against a DTM Sierra 1365 kg). The 4-valve head on the Sierra RS meant an ever heavier 1390 kg.

I'd often wondered why the DTM teams seemed to persevere with the 'old' XR4Ti rather than the Cosworth in 87- presumably the lower weight (even 25kg....) must have made the older car a viable option, particularly bearing in mind that it probably wasn't giving away that much horsepower against a pre-RS500 Cosworth.....

[Lee Janotta]

Don't ever underestimate that little turbo 2.3L engine... A guy here in the states has one with an air-water intercooler in a Ford Pinto... It's his daily driver, but he can turn 12-second quarter mile runs all day.

[Slartibartfast]

There were several other differences. The DTM required silencers, but since the events were much shorter than an ETCC race, they had smaller fuel tanks and no dry break quick refuelling pipework.
If you get a look at any DTM Sierra, there is a large exhaust pipe at the rear of the car, and a silencer can be seen. Pure Group A cars had an exhaust which ended under the right side door.
I got this information way back in 1985, when Ringhausen decided to run a car in one of the ETCC events that year - I think it was Estoril.
The HWRT team also appeared in Europe several times during the 1986 season - but they had different cars for each series.
The Andy Rouse built cars (he won his class again in 1986) only differed in the fuel tank size and quick fill hardware.
On a related note - does anyone have photos of the Klaus Neidzweidz HWRT (Wolf) racing Liqui Moly XR4Ti that he ran in the 1986 DTM?