Why didn't the teams change tires? (merged again)

[Tony Clifton]

In the first pit stop, especially for Hamilton, why didn't Mcaren at least put on a new set of intermediate tires?
Timewise the pit was almost 6 seconds just for fuel, tires could hae been done in that time frame.
I realize they were trying to keep track position, but the right front on Hamilton was very worn and McLaren should have been thinking points, even a 4th place finish by Hamilton would have given him the championship over Raikkonen and only allowed Alonso to pick up 3 points virtually guaranteeing Hamilton the WDC.
POINTS, POINTS, POINTS!!!!

[Sodemo]

Exactly, I don't understand why they didn't just change the worn inters for fresh inters.

At the time of the pitstop, the rain had let off, and was drying up, but the tyres were in such bad shape anyway, if it had stayed dry (which it did) the tyres would have been torn apart, if it had poured down, then there was no tread left to cope with that...

[Adam43]

It is not to do with the time required to change the tyres. They prefer to keep the older tyres on. We have seen in the past that new wets can take a long time to warm up, whereas the wets already on are ready for racing. Unless they are worn out it is more usual for drivers to not change wets nowadays.

It was probably the right thing to do for most drivers, but not Hamilton...

[Marbot]

In certain conditions a worn set of "inters" are quicker than a new set of "inters"....err,that's it really.

What he said. ^

[JeremySmith]

They were chasing the weather as well not really knowing if it would rain or not, or indeed when!

[Sodemo]

The thing is, that the tyres were in such bad shape if they did have any rain they could never have coped.

The only conditions they were suitable for would have been a very damp track.

[JeremySmith]

Such a hard call..They missed it by, what one or two laps. ?

[pottiella]

he would have been fine just to even finish behind Fernando at worst...between 2nd and 3rd place, it would have meant an identical scenario to schumi/alonso last year in Brazil (Fernando NEEDING to win, and Lewis only needing to finish in the points)...which wouldn't have been too shabby at all. For that reason, I don't think McLaren really needed Lewis to race Fernando either...

It just seems that they got their priorities really out of perspective - and hence the clouded judgement to poorly decide on letting Lewis stay out for as long as he could.

That's my take on it anyway...

Remember Alonso was in exactly the same situation last year in china at renault against schumi...with flailing tyres - and even his pitstop was botched up when he made the extra pitstop...losing a whole load of extra time and place, but at least Renault kept their head together, kept things in perspective, and felt it better to finish behind Schumi than not finish at all....

I don't think it will hurt Lewis too much though, championship wise. Botch-ups like this happen all the time, and usually once or twice in a championship challenging team. I'm sure it's a lesson learnt on all sides...

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

The only conditions they were suitable for would have been a very damp track.

Or a set of four coffee tables.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Such a hard call..They missed it by, what one or two laps. ?

Just the pit lane really. *cruel*

Just a lap earlier and things could have been a whole lot different.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

The thing is, that the tyres were in such bad shape if they did have any rain they could never have coped.

The delay was not to get that set back into play, but to know what other set to put on at the next stop.

They made a mistake, we know that, but I can see what they were thinking at the time.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by martyn bott

Just the pit lane really. *cruel*

Just a lap earlier and things could have been a whole lot different.

Very cruel..

It shows how good Hamilton is, because those tires were ready to fall apart from what I could see!

[BootsOntheSide]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

It shows how good Hamilton is, because those tires were ready to fall apart from what I could see!

How good does that make Alonso and Raikkonen, making the exact same tyres last perfectly well in the exact same conditions? A little bit of inexperience ultimately cost Lewis today. If it had rained again, everybody would have needed fresh Inters - it's a game of chess, and it's better for a frontrunner to make the same call as the others.

[wheadon]

obviously Bernie the bolt has planned all this and has his 3 way shoot out at the last race, Obviously it'll make good tv which is what bernie does!!

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by wheadon

obviously Bernie the bolt has planned all this and has his 3 way shoot out at the last race, Obviously it'll make good tv which is what bernie does!!

LOL...Please now this is getting very silly, don't you think?

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

LOL...Please now this is getting very silly, don't you think?

Oh yer think? What's the betting that somehow it manages to go down to the wire next season.

The expression "Down to the wire".Is that a tyre thing or what?

[Chiefy]

A similar thing happened in MotoGP a few weeks ago, at their Japanese GP. Marco Melandri was somehow on fire (though not literally) and yet when the track dried he chose not to change bikes, for fear that Casey Stoner (championship frontrunner) would nick the win from him. Melandri wasn't even in the title hunt, indeed Stoner was an almost certain champion by that point anyway. Melandri, Stoner and Valentino Rossi all stayed out - but when the mediocre Sylvain Guintoli pitted for a dry-tyred bike he oblitterated all the fast laptimes and finished 4th (a bit like Wurz today, only with a good result instead of without one). Eventually Melandri and Stoner pitted, leaving Rossi, who pitted a lap later but struggled with his new bike. All 3 should have pitted much earlier because it cost all 3 a podium finish! Loris Capirossi won from Randy de Puniet and (forgotten 3rd place). For the record, Melandri finished 5th and Stoner 6th - which might be indicative of what might have happened to Lewis' race for pitting at that late time. Kubica could have won it.

Sorry for the long-windedness of a story you might already know, or else not care about!

[Javi]

Let´s hope title is written right...
I am still amazed how did Mr. Dennis (or whoever responsible) let Hamilton battle Raikkonen and Trulli with so badly worn tyres. It´s a mistake of really big size, one that, for example, Ross Brawn would never have made. I am trying to think a race won by Mclaren by means of strategy and can not remember any (someone will, sure!). Lately, when McLaren have won races is for having a very fast car with a very fast driver. for example, In 1998 they had the best car/driver combination but everybody will remember hungary when they were fooled by Ferrari / schumacher doing 3 stops... I can not remember watching McLaren doing something similar to win in an inferior car...
Please, Mods, move this thread if you think it fits in anyother already open!

[brands]

McLaren and Ferrari both declined to change tyres at the first stop which had to be the right call given they work better than new inters however as soon as Hamilton started to lose huge chunks of time to Kimi and certainly once Kimi had caught and passed him they should have called him in. He continued for at least two laps with the canvas showing through the rear right tyre even though it was visible on TV........given all that, if Hamilton had managed to make the pitlane turn he would still have managed to collect enough points to take Kimi out of the title race and make Alonso's chances remote.

[MrTTraces]

I felt sorry for Hamilton when he 'beached' it but watching the chinese marshalls trying to push him back on track was funny.

Kinda took the wind out of ITV's sails, they were expecting to be celebrating Lewis's title with a thickly laid on cheesy smootch fest.

Instead we got half a press conference and 10 minutes of Steve and Marks 'analysis' blaming Mclaren for the incident but positively saying he can win it in Brazil.

[Gt_R]

Keeping the tires unchanged after the first round of pitstop is the sensible approach imo, and a decision to be taken at that point. A new set will cost some vital seconds to get up to speed, and moreover, a quick stop for fuel indicate that teams are sort of expecting the track to dry out, and the first set will be quicker.

Mistake is that Mclaren pushed the boundary too far. They hope to drag it long enough to "save" Lewis one extra stop for tire changing, but unfortunately, that cost him the race. Shows that Mclaren isn't above making silly errors either, but it does keep the championship alive.

But now, Lewis must feel some pressure... and it will be a heartbreak if Alonso wins it at the last moment.

[leonidas]

This debate reminds me of that scene in Days of Thunder:

- The tyres blow, is that my fault?
- Yes, it's your fault. There's 42 other drivers out there who don't use up their tyres.

If you're going to run long it doesn't make sense to get into a dogfight with drivers you don't need to beat. If you're marginal why give your rubber the additional hammering? Sometimes you win championships by running your own race and letting other drivers get past... Would be interesting to hear if there was any pit to car advice going on out there.

[Fish_Flake]

It was the wrong strategy for Hamilton. He didn't need to win the race; all he needed to do was score a few points to eliminate Raikkonen and wear down Alonso's chances. Instead, he was driving to win, using up his tires in the early stages trying to create a gap between himself and Raikkonen. His tires were more worn after the first stop than Raikkonen's, even though the latter drove a longer stint on a heavier fuel load. The conditions finally indicated drying conditions during the second stint, and Raikkonen being a superior driver in variable conditions with (relatively) better rubber, Hamilton had no shot.

Hamilton should have been called in immediately after Wurz and Webber stopped for slicks and began setting fast times. It was clear that Hamilton would not be able to keep the pace: Raikkonen downright embarrassed him with his display of car control. Heck, his own teammate made up fifteen seconds on him over the span of three laps. When the problems with the car and driver are so apparent that the team's sister car is making them look foolish, why keep him out there for so long?

[phoenix]

I also think it was a bad call by McLaren. I agree that Hamilton should have been called in two laps earlier than he was as even I could see his tyres were shot. It seems the team didn't want to bring him in and make the mistake of putting him on the wrong tyres. The bigger mistake was not changing tyres even if they later found they were the wrong choice! Hamilton ending up in a gravel trap was one of the least serious outcomes for the car and the driver that racing hard on worn out tyres could have resulted in.

Hamilton also seemed on mission to finish the championship in China - and with a win. Youthful exuberance and inexperience were to blame IMHO - which also contributed to the poor condition of his tyres compared with Kimi's.

Obviously every point Hamilton scored in China would have been 1 less point he needed to score in Brazil. Any mistakes in Brazil could now cost Hamilton the championship. Another mistake as serious as this by him or the team will definitely lose it for him. Altogether a crazy and avoidable situation to be in.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Fish_Flake

The conditions finally indicated drying conditions during the second stint, and Raikkonen being a superior driver in variable conditions with (relatively) better rubber, Hamilton had no shot.

The conditions could have gone either way at the time of the problem, that is what the issue is.

Hamilton should have been called in immediately after Wurz and Webber stopped for slicks and began setting fast times.

When did they put dry tyres on? Was this before or after Hamilton parked? I'm not sure any of this timing really means that Hamilton could have used their laps times to assess this. For instance on lap 27 Autosport describe the conditions as "More rain". Hamilton went out on lap 30.

When the problems with the car and driver are so apparent that the team's sister car is making them look foolish, why keep him out there for so long?

I agree, but they wanted to wait another couple of laps to see if it was going to rain more, or if it was going to continue to become dry. In addition going longer probably would have helped with fuel.

It is easy to realise that it was the wrong choice. D'oh. However at the time, when your, so far, accurate weather predictions are telling you that coming in now will mean an extra stop over your rivals then I can see why you might make the wrong choice. It was only over that final lap that he became extremely slow, rather than just slow. Until then losing 1 or even 2 seconds a lap was probably better than a potential extra stop(?).