More Teams

[nippy]

Who agrees with me that Arrows, Prost should be brought back to help with the spectacle of f1.
Why doesn't Craig Pollock put his hand in his pocket and by prost and do what he did to B.A.R. Only this time doesn't make the same mistakes. This would also revive Villenuve and bring in more new talent.
What are your thoughts.

[nippy]

By the way i genuinly meant Pollock and not what i put sorry for any offence i admire the mans work.

[Kicking-back]

Arrows and Prost are in the past. They went bust. Formula One has seen teams come and go right from the word go - always has, probably always will.

Your suggestion about Craig Pollock is nonsense - no individual, bar a Bill Gates type figure - could run a Formula One team from their own personal funds.

We may see new teams in the future but I don't think looking back is they way forward.

[Knowlesy]

I wouldn't welcome Prost and Arrows back.....how long before they went bust again through the same mis-management?

What we need are all new teams, and I don't mean Phoenix either.

What happened to Dan Gurneys proposed team?

[Kicking-back]

Dan Gurney's proposed team was nothing other than a bit of talk blown out of proportion.

[grumpy1]

Would it not be better to introduce new teams with new faces and outlooks instead of the same old lot who will eventually fall over again.I would love to see Audi,Nissan and General Motors in F1.Maybe even Porche.That would then make it interesting as these teams have great records in sports cars and would know that it would take time to reach the top.

The Grumpy1

[Raglanparade]

There was talk about Volkswagen entering f1 for some time. I think this had something to do with the Former boss of Peugoet was now at the helm at VW, and he was a huge f1 fan (hence peugoets involvement in f1 under his leadership)..
I beleive Audi is owned by the VW group? im not entirely sure. I would have thought after there sports car sucess in recent years an f1 team would be the next step. BMW did the same kinda thing with being successful in sports cars, and then going into F1.
Maybe you might see Bentley in F1 one day. I do agree that general motors should be in F1, but they are Amercian. They supply engines to nascar and the IRL (im pretty sure about that).. I know Ford is in F1, but they have been since the 60's, GM never have been interested in f1 really, and i dont expect any change of heart. GM is very stuck to there whole traditional thing. Nascars Etc. Australia's arm of GM Holden, creates a monster car, the Monaro, and GM is now buying 21000 a year to sell in the states under the Pontiac GTO guise. GM lacks creativity.
The problem with GMH is that they have too many guisings all over the world. If they had Chevrolet on the f1 car, then it wuld only be the correct branding for the Amercian and Canadian GP. in Australia GM is known as Holden, in England its known as Vauxhall, and in Germany and the rest of Europe its known as Opel. Im not sure if the FIA would allow a f1 car to change its sponsers every race depending on which country they are in. Then again. with the chinese and arabic races coming up, maybe that will change so that we have Marlboro in Chinese all over the Ferrari when in Shanghai, and Marlboro in Arab all over the Ferrari in Bahrain.
VW-Audi i think will enter f1 given the right circumstances.

-Jason

[Mr V]

Originally posted by jasonhill9884
VW-Audi i think will enter f1 given the right circumstances.

I'm not sure that they will. There has been plenty of talk over the years, but has never happened, which does surprise me, after all, i'd have thought that Audi (VW) would want to challenge their biggest rivals....BMW and Mercades.

However, with BMW locked in with Williams and Mercades with McLaren, maybe Audi (VW) wouldn't want to take the risk as they would have to come in with a team like Jordan or Minardi.

[Raglanparade]

Its a tough one. There is an extra spot on the F1 grid now that Arrows and Prost are gone. If VW wanted to enter f1 in there own right they could im pretty sure.
I think Eddie Jordan wouldnt like to go with an unproven power plant. (reminds me of the yamaha days)..
VW (audi) should come to play with all the other children in F1.
-Jason

[Gt_R]

And why would VW jump in when they had one eye on taking F1's prized jewel... Ferrari? All they need is to wait for Fiat to go down and forced to sell.

[Super Tourer]

I don't think there is another team on the horizon.

Looking at the budget figs we posted recently, the cost v reward looks a pretty horrific figure, I don't know how you wold get any of those costs sanctioned by a board meeting!

If VAG were to enter F1, they would be looking at a 3 to 5 year lead time (at least) before they saw any meaningfull results, that lead time would probably cost $600M to $1Bn. Look at Toyota, there point per $ spent in total so far, would be an eye watering figure.

Compare those costs to what VAG have spent to win Le Mans and dominate world sports car racing with the Audi R8 - a bargain, the R8 is still going to be winning races this year - in the same timescale they would have junked 3 or 4 F1 cars by now. Also sports car racing fits their image more of a sporty but reliable brand.

[Kicking-back]

Originally posted by jasonhill9884
I think Eddie Jordan wouldnt like to go with an unproven power plant.

Are you kidding?

If it was free and there were guarantees of a proper research and development programme, EJ would happily run an unproven power plant.

Sacrificing short-term competitiveness and reliability for longer-term gains sure beats shelling out millions for customer Cosworths every year.

[DriverT]

Especially when the customer Cosworths are a pile of .

[Kicking-back]

Pile of race-winning *****, to be fair!

[Raglanparade]

yeah i think VW would be better off doing the renault trick.... supplying a team with engines for a few years.. then build a chassis... slowly ease into f1..

-jason

[EERO]

I doubt VAG would ever enter F1, though the prospect several years ago of their buying out Prost and keeping the factory in France and renaming the team "Bugatti" had a nice symmetry to it.

Nissan are in F1 already: they're called "Renault". Or rather, should Flavio Flave's plan to create a "junior Team" come to fruition, Minardi might become Minardi-Nissan. (Just random conjecture, not based in fact of any sort)


If GM were to consider the unlikely possibility of entering F1, their moribund SAAB brand could use the boost and is marketed around the world. Cadillac might be another possibility, especially as they are repositioning themselves against BMW and Merc.

[kdr]

Originally posted by Super Tourer
Compare those costs to what VAG have spent to win Le Mans and dominate world sports car racing with the Audi R8 - a bargain, the R8 is still going to be winning races this year - in the same timescale they would have junked 3 or 4 F1 cars by now. Also sports car racing fits their image more of a sporty but reliable brand.

precisely. when it goes wrong in f1 its the engine builders(or tyre manufacturers)fault. when its going well its all because of some 22 year old hidden behind a pair of oakleys.

[BootsOntheSide]

The obsession some people have with bringing back old teams seems ridiculous. Lotus, Tyrrell, Prost, Arrows etc are gone. Colin Chapman and Ken Tyrrell aren't even alive any more. Even if a team was brought in with the same name, it wouldn't be the same team with the same soul. The days of private talented enthusiasts coming in might be over - at least until a few of the factory teams give up.

Entering F1 is a very expensive business, and no individual could afford it, other than extremely rich ones. You can't do it as a business venture per se - the only way to make a small fortune from motor racing is to start with a big fortune. There would be little satisfaction in running 16th (which is about as good as they could hope for) either.

Formula 1 needs a big change - maybe the chance to run last year's manufacturer cars and a dedicated Privateers' Championship (with the privateers still eligable in the main points system) - to get any new teams in. There's more chance of existing ones folding, leaving us with 3 cars from each of the big guns.

[Super Tourer]

[i]

Formula 1 needs a big change - maybe the chance to run last year's manufacturer cars and a dedicated Privateers' Championship (with the privateers still eligable in the main points system) - to get any new teams in. There's more chance of existing ones folding, leaving us with 3 cars from each of the big guns. [/B]

Couldn't agree more, but I can't see the 'big four' going for it, and if they don't agree it will never get sanctioned.

In reality the subject of cost cutting is one you only hear from the lips of EJ, PS and Ford, all of whom have good reason to want it. You never hear FW, RD, or Mercedes and BMW mention it. While they make the profits and can justify it to the board to spend that sort of money, they always will.

In the final analysis if the car makers want to cut costs, they have the ultimate cost cutting method - pull out of F1, which on a cycle basis, they have all done over the years.

[nippy]

Quote"Your suggestion about Craig Pollock is nonsense - no individual, bar a Bill Gates type figure - could run a Formula One team from their own personal funds."

What about Eddie Jordan. This is what Craig did to B.A.R. in 1998 bought out a team and ran it.

[Kicking-back]

Eddie Jordan does not run the team from his personal funds - that's why they have sponsors.

Craig Pollock did not buy Tyrrell - he persuaded British American Tobacco to do it.

No individual, bar someone who was uncomprehendably rich, could do it from their own pocket.

[Raglanparade]

The only way f1 is going to sustain 20 cars is if more manufactuers were involved.
some interesting prospects could evolve.

Minardi-Skoda v10
Jordan-Mitsubishi (i think sooner or later Mitsu will pull out of WRC and come to the big time, same as Toyota)...

I think to entice more teams to enter, they should be able to run whatever engine configurations they want. Toyota originally wanted to put a v12 in there f1 car, but bernie said v10's only. I think engines should be allowed to be 4,6,8,10,12,14,16 cylinders, as long as they are 3 litres in size. Then we would see some excitement. V8 teams would have advantages around the smaller tighter tracks like Monaco and Hungary, and the higher cylinder engines will be faster around the Monza style circuits.
Teans would only be allowed to use the one engine configuration throughout the season. This would stop ferrari developing a V8 for monaco, and a V or H16 for monza... i beleive if modifactions were made then GM and VAG would join the show... we need to spice things up.

-jason

[shawn89]

Have the teams allowed people who want to start teams to buy chassis yet?

Another thing. I want them to go back to the days of 1989. 38 cars going for 26 spots on the grid. Wasn't that great?

[EERO]

Originally posted by jasonhill9884
The only way f1 is going to sustain 20 cars is if more manufactuers were involved.
some interesting prospects could evolve.

Minardi-Skoda v10
Jordan-Mitsubishi (i think sooner or later Mitsu will pull out of WRC and come to the big time, same as Toyota)...

Though it is unlikely DaimlerChrysler would even consider it.

As for Skoda, see the VAG comments above.

Frankly, we are in more danger of losing Manufacturers than of gaining them, as there are only three viable Manufactures, GM (no interest) VAG, (Little interest) and Peugeot(Lost interest) who could sustain an F1 program. Porsche just doesn't have the cash-not without TAG money (0oops, tied-up at McLaren...)

The future means three car teams or cheaper engines, cus Ford and Honda cannot sustain the pace of spending and BMW, TOYOTA, Renault and Mercedes will NOT be around for ever. History does repeat.

[Snrub]

I think privateers are a dying bread. Team budgets were posted a few days ago. They're obsceen, 2-300M for all but the privateers. The manufacturers have declared war and in 2003 we saw an incredibly competitive mid-field. I think in the future privateers will disappear. Even with the mighty F2002 engine and past success the 2003 Sauber was relagated behind the manufacturer cars.

I completely agree that GM's corporate problems prevent much success and also prevent the motivation or ability to compete in F1. On a sidebar no disrespect to Ausis who we all know have the best car market in the world, but the GTO has pretty much been received with a yawn.