What’s going on at BAR? Have they lost their heads

[gp19]

What’s going on at BAR? Have they lost their heads, look at the race, and see what I mean. First Villeneuve has a big problem with Panis, I think Panis is pushing Villeneuve to the max and he does t like that. Villeneuve was trying to keep Panis from passing him, so he did a dumb mistake that took the life of a marshal there was no way Ralf was going to let him pass at that point. And lets not forget Panis loses 4 point because of a yellow flag pass that is stupid from a pro like him .BAR better get your thing together or they will lose all the respect you won last year and Honda at the same time. Wakeup BAR time to play with the big boys.
Tell me what you think love to hear from all of you!
I had A not SSSSSSSSo good day GP19
R.I.P. to the Marshal

[Jay]

GP19, what the hell are you talking about? Villeneuve has no problems with Panis, they get along much better than JV has with any other teammate yet. This had absolutely nothing to do with Panis. Villeneuve had been pulling away from Panis from the start of the race, it was only Ralf that prevented him from pulling away even more.

You almost sound like you are blaming Villeneuve and BAR for the marshall's death. A very sick thing to do.

You have made no points whatsoever.

[R]

I agree with Jay. GP19, did it ever occur to you that the Villeneuve/R.Schumacher accident may have been triggered by Jacques having technical problems? Stuck throttle, brakes perhaps not working, anything could have happened, we don't know yet. So don't lay blame on someone for a tragic accident when nobody knows what caused it yet.

[Don K]

Originally posted by R
... did it ever occur to you that the Villeneuve/R.Schumacher accident may have been triggered by Jacques having technical problems? ...

Did he have technical problems when he made that stupid move during the US Grand Prix?
As far as I know, he tried the same thing during another GP last year.

Had it been any other driver, I might have thought he had a technical problem.
But when it's Jacques ...

[R]

What?? When it's Jacques, then it can never be a technical problem causing an accident, it always has to be his own fault?? Come on!

There'll be an investigation into what caused the accident, and BAR will co-operate fully with that. Until that's sorted out, I think looking for a scapegoat is out of taste, to put it mildly.

[Maximum F1]

To be fair people, a good driver can't afford to be completely safety consious. I do not think it is fair to place blame for such a matter, rather to look for further safety enhancements to circuits to prevent it happening again. Drivers need to be able to go out and race without feeling they are jeopradising other peoples lives.
I don't wish to cause any disrespect to the marshall but Villeneuve was just racing, whatever way you look at it.

[Don K]

Originally posted by R
What?? When it's Jacques, then it can never be a technical problem causing an accident, it always has to be his own fault?? Come on!

That's not what I said.

I said:
When I see a driver doing something like that,
in most cases I would immediately think of a technical problem.
But when I see Jacques doing it (again),
a technical problem is not the first thing I think of.

[Guy Goddard]

Originally posted by Jay
[

You almost sound like you are blaming Villeneuve and BAR for the marshall's death. A very sick thing to do.

You have made no points whatsoever. [/B]

I agree, a man has died and this needs the utmost respect, blame is not something anyone should discuss until all the facts are clear rather than assuming.

[TeddyG]

I have to agree with what Maximum said earlier that Villeneuve was just indeed "just racing." I would hate to see something like this curb Villeneuve's aggressive racing style. Villeneuve knows he doesn't have the fastest car but is willing to test the limits and be on the edge more than any other driver in F1. I don't always agree with the timing that he chooses to make his moves but it makes for exciting racing. Fans want to see the drivers taking chances and so what if he doesn't always pull through and make the pass, at least he is trying to do something! Instead of mindlessly lapping around and around seemingly content with whatever place they are in. Don't get me wrong there have been a lot of great passes by other drivers but none of them attempt as much as Villeneuve. Bottom line if Villeneuve stopped making those gutsy moves then F1 would be so bloody boring... I'd be forced to turn to NASCAR!!

p.s. the death of the Marshall is a tragedy but we all know that racing is a dangerous sport and everyone involved shares a certain amount of risk. Unfortunately every now and then that risk is realised and people get hurt or even killed.

[Schumacher]

Whether Jacques should be blamed or not is another story. But one thing for sure, he sure has a bad habit of driving into people...and then getting ****ed of when someone drives into him. Take that for what its worth. But Jacques has'nt really endeared himself as a racing diver since 1997.

[R]

Originally posted by Don K

That's not what I said.

I said:
When I see a driver doing something like that,
in most cases I would immediately think of a technical problem.
But when I see Jacques doing it (again),
a technical problem is not the first thing I think of.

That was not what you said in your first post on this topic. You said: "Had it been any other driver, I might have thought he had a technical problem. But when it's Jacques ..."

Those statements are completely different. I simply finished the sentence the only way it could be interpreted. A technical problem was not the first thing I thought of either, but I agree with Guy, blame shouldn't be issued until all the facts around this tragic accident are clear. I will therefore refrain from commenting any further on this.

[Liz]

"A driver should just be able to go out and race without thinking if he is jeopardizing other peoples' lives ... "

SINCE WHEN? The number of people out there who are racing with comnplete disregard for the lives of others is one of the thing about F1 that needs to be fixed right today. Jackie Stewart has said so on more than one occasion, as has Mario Andretti and Prof. Watkins, among many others. Now that the cars are "safe", a lot of the rael problems come from the invincible, heedless children behind the wheels of those cars.

Yes, the cars are safer than they used to be. But not everyone involved in racing is in one of those cars, and I wonder how many marshalls or spectators have to die before some people get it through their heads that they do, YES< THEY DO have to think if they are jeopardizing other peoples' lives by what they do!

But i am not going to blame anybody for this accident until I hear all sides of the issue. I just wonder, if it had been TGF who ran up the bootlid of his brother, how many people would have instantly concluded that he was at fault?

[Schumacher]

If that facts concluded that Michael was to blame then people would have definately taken him to task in such a situation. In this case, facts suggest that while it WAS A RACING ACCIDENT - Villunerve was the man who was over-ambitious and should have known better. However, no one is blaming Jacques of doing anything deliberately as some of you would want to believe. I think we've all been very responsible while projecting our views on the forum.

[Jay]

Schumacher, if you look at the replay from JV's incar camera, you will see that it was most certainly not over ambition.

As you said it was purely a racing incident. Ralf did brake hard about 75-100 feet before the normal breaking point, but that does not mean it was his fault either, as Villeneuve still smashed into him.

Villeneuve is really taking this hard and today he was admitted to hospital, so I wish him the best too.

[Mania]

"Villeneuve's accident was - thankfully - very unusual. Drivers know the risks of such crashes and do everything they can to avoid them. Villeneuve ran into the back of Ralf Schumacher at around 135mph. It is not clear why he did. Afterwards he said that he felt that Ralf Schumacher had braked early but the Williams team said that this was not the case. Ralf had braked at the same spot as usual. Villeneuve, looking for a way to pass the Williams, may have been concentrating more on Schumacher than on the road ahead and been caught out. This seems to be the most logical explanation. Whatever the case Villeneuve had no time to do anything."

Actually it seems as if Jacques mis-read the road so to speak. I agree with e.one that it was a racing incident - this was the first race of the season, everyone is pumped up!!

[Orange]

I think the question here hasn't been answered... What is up with BAR?? I think that general opinion was, that with the coming of Panis and the increased involvement of Honda, that BAR was going to be a real challenger for the #3 spot... now they are getting creamed by.. Heidfeld?? in a Suaber??? Oh dear, oh dear...

[TeddyG]

I wouldn't say that they are getting "creamed" by anyone (except Ferrari and McLaren of course) Jacques made a stupid passing attempt at the wrong time but,I think, would have eventually passed Ralph and as far as Panis goes that was another stupid move and we should expect more from a veteran like him. Despite this poor first showing I still think that BAR will be best of the rest this season followed closely by Williams but Jordan will have problems. Sauber?? NO WAY!!!!

[gp19]

Orange:I think the readers did not get my drift. First, I am not blaming Jax for the lost of the marshal. All I m saying is that BAR is not show the potential they were suppose to have. Jax should have known that Ralf is the copy of his brother, and look at the starts when Michel’s not In front he take the middle of the road a brakes way to early, he did that twice last year and blame everybody for hitting him, Example if your don’t want to be passed you go in the middle and wait for the guy to pass you and just before he dose you let the gas pedal go, the other car in back panics and goes right or lift and usually you get reed of him .I think Jax should have saw that coming 2 If Bar dose not perform Honda well go with Jordan for the rest of the season. In addition, I would not like to see this happen. That is what I am trying to explain!
Have a supper day gp19

[Orange]

I guess you are right TeddyG and GP19, it was probably just bad luck for the BARs (keep in mind, that the full extent of my viewing of the race, is a web page that has the real-time standings lap by lap ) I just cant help thinking, that Sauber and Jordan are showing more promise... I hope Honda will continue technical support throughout the season, and I think with a little luck, we could see both BAR's finishing in the points... In any case, reliability is not seeming to be a problem, and boy, is Panis ever the business!!!!

[TeddyG]

Indeed Panis is going to push Villeneuve all season long. It should be interesting to see who will be the better driver, although if Villeneuve keeps running into other cars I don't think he's going do to well.
In terms of Honda I don't think they will pick a team on which to provide more technical support to unless one of the teams really starts to pull away from the other in terms of points, but it is far too early for that. As of right now I would think that BAR has the upper hand in support from Honda at the moment, since they have had the longer works engine deal with them, but I would say both teams should get fairly equal treatment from Honda throughout the season. Hope BAR comes out on top though!