307 in ETCC?

[j_t_8_8_8]

There are rumours about Peugeot 307 in ETCC, with Peugeot Statoil from Denmark...
The car will be the 307 5 door, with Jan Magnussen and another driver, maybe Watt... they will be running only on occasional races...

Also Italian Autofficina Rally is supposed to be in the ETCC with Peugeot, as an Indipendent team, or in the Endurance Touring Car Series.
They run Peugeot (the 306) in Italian SuperP from 2000, but now this championship is looking uncertain because of the regs and so all the teams are loking otherwise

[Craner Curves]

But the 307 isn't homologated. Yet. Could this be the answer to Team Vartas needs?

[SFonseca]

Peugeot 307 will be in ETCC 2004.

[Craig]

Originally posted by Craner Curves
But the 307 isn't homologated. Yet. Could this be the answer to Team Vartas needs?

Varta's cars are three door models.

[kmchow]

Will the ETCC make another exception and allow another hatchback to race? Wouldn't that be taking a step backwards?

[j_t_8_8_8]

Will the ETCC make another exception and allow another hatchback to race? Wouldn't that be taking a step backwards?

Lenght:

Civic --> 4,14m
307 ----> 4,20m

so the 307 could be eligible without any help

[Craner Curves]

Civic was only supposed to be eligible for a season when they would enter an Accord.

[FIRE]

Civic was only supposed to be eligible for a season when they would enter an Accord.

I think you are right (and because they were not a danger for BMW and Alfa ).

[touringlegend]

Does it matter what length the 307 is?

I thought all models had to be 4 door saloons ?

[Craig]

It really depends on whether the FIA decide to bend their own rules but, as the car mentioned in this thread is a five door model, it wouldn't matter in this case. Unless Varta are allowed to convert their three door cars into five door models then they will not be allowed to enter. Fullstop.

[kmchow]

oookay,so the 307 is a 5 door hatchback??

[Craig]

The Peugeot 307 is available in a number of different styles: 3-door and 5-door hatchback, convertable and estate. As far as I am aware the only model that could meet the FIA's ETCC regs is the 5 door model. And the manufacturer has to have the car homologated too.

[Startline1]

I`m sorry if this is going over old ground but, I think the ETCC should make a ruling that all models should be saloons, that is all cars must have an obvious (near horizontal) boot type area fron the bottom of the rear window to the back .

While this view may be regarded by some as old hat i have spoken to many friends who are not all regular race fans and allmost to a man they think the recent trend towards these overgrown super-mini`s is not what the public want.

Therefore it`s the profile thats important not just the overall size of the model.

[redshoes]

Short of BMW I can't think of many manufacturers that make cars with a 'near horizontal boot type area' Most have gone to the sloping rear 5-door hatchback style.

[HJC]

Peugeot are about to launch the new 407... Maybe they're going to do ETCC with this one.

[runnyhunny]

Mmmnnn... on the two/three vs. four/five door argument, think about it. Which cars are often at the very top of the sales charts? The Focus and the Corsa! Obviously, they are not four-door saloons.

In my opinion, large 'rep-mobiles' are exceptionally bland. The vast majority of them are far too conservative, and not the kind of thing that young people aspire to own (e.g. Mondeo, Vectra, Laguna).

Take a look at the slightly smaller cars - they are much better looking, and people want to own them!

If touring cars are supposed to be about racing the kind of cars that people buy, then they should be running Focuses and Corsas. As that isn't the case, I can only assume that the manufacturers and teams simply enter whatever they like.

Admit it, the Civic Type-R looks a million times better than the Accord! Same for the Astra (Coupe or not) vs. the Vectra! And don't even try to compare the 406 Coupe with the saloon...

My other concern with larger cars is the state of the UK tracks. Places like Croft and Knockhill are just too small!

[touringlegend]

Originally posted by runnyhunny
In my opinion, large 'rep-mobiles' are exceptionally bland. The vast majority of them are far too conservative, and not the kind of thing that young people aspire to own (e.g. Mondeo, Vectra, Laguna).

But in my view, that was half the reason that Super Touring was so succesful. To me there's a lot of appeal to witnessing "boring" cars that are a complete opposite of their road counterparts.

[rdjones]

Originally posted by touringlegend
But in my view, that was half the reason that Super Touring was so succesful. To me there's a lot of appeal to witnessing "boring" cars that are a complete opposite of their road counterparts.

I would agree with that, but IMO another reason why it worked was that the public could identify with the cars as they would see them on the road every day of the week - how often do see a Proton Impian.

[touringlegend]

Bad example if you ask me, the Proton.

Now, if you ask me how many Honda Civic's and Vauxhall Astra's I see on the road every day my reply would be I aint got enough fingers and toes to count them on...

[rdjones]

OK yes I know there are loads of Astra's, Civic's, 307's and ZS's about. In fact I did see a Proton Impian today. But if you think about maybe it's a good think that the punter's can idenify with the cars.

[kmchow]

I'm definitely biased but when I see
2 door coupes-I think GT cars
4 door sedans/saloons-I think touring cars
hatchbacks-I see one make series

[runnyhunny]

Hmm... so watching tarted-up 'dull' cars is exciting? Perhaps I can therefore assume that watching tarted-up 'normal' cars is more exciting?!

The Impian is a very bad example. It's a four-door saloon, but you don't see any on the road. In fact, the last time I saw one on the road, it was just outside Brands Hatch, and David Leslie was driving it!

Consider the 1995 BTCC grid. The current versions of those cars are not as popular as they once were. More and more smaller cars are about these days - superminis (e.g. Corsa, Fiesta) or the next step-up (e.g. Astra, Focus).

The smaller cars are the popular ones, so if we are aiming for 'public recognition', it makes sense to stay with them.

Unfortunately, as the BTCC blends away from BTC Touring and into Super 2000 (which will increase costs!), more and more four-door cars will appear. Super 2000 re-introduces the old '4.2 m minimum length' rule, and insists that cars are a four-door saloon.

(apart from the ETCC Honda Civic, which was only granted an exemption for 2002, and on the understanding that Honda entered Accords in 2003)

[KA]

Personally it doesn't really matter whether they're 3-door hatches or 4-door saloons to me, although I suspect that's because my first exposure to touring cars was back in the Group A days in the 80's when we had 2-door coupes, 2 and 4 door saloons and 3/5 door hatches of various sizes all competing in the same race.

So long as the basic regulations on dimensions and weight are met and we don't have a situation where a manufacturer could achieve a major advantage over their rivals by going down a particular route (say Vauxhall suddenly homologating a 2-litre Corsa, although that's probably not a good example of what I mean), then personally I'd leave it up to the teams and manufacturers to decide which model they race

[KA]

Originally posted by kmchow
I'm definitely biased but when I see
2 door coupes-I think GT cars

I wouldn't voice that one on the GT/Sportscars forum- particularly with the words BMW M3 anywhere in the same post- a lot of people over there think that one's definitely a tourer....